Easiest Doctorate

Maybe the easiest RA doctorate posssible would be to come up with some doctoral level learning in the proverbial "basket weaving" category and apply it towards the Union Institute & University interdisciplinary doctoral program.

John

 

worth it??

An email chum of mine, now a member of this forum, I believe, has an MA from Pepperdine. He tells the story of a student who when hearing that the Prof oft didn't even read student papers after the first page of the text of his term paper filled the rest with some folly as "Peter Piper picked a peck...) over and over again. He got an "A" on the paper! While this anecdote seems surreal, I tend to believe it knowing this citer's background.( Of course it does not indicate a trend).

From the opposite pole come the recent nationwide research finding reported in a school administrator's journal that students much learn (big surprise) through responding to the teacher's probes of student submissions! In this case perhaps much is learned simply by one letter on the front page by the professor's pen!

 

The easiest doctoral degree? Probably a degree in a field in which the student is already well prepared, and in which he or she has been doing some creative thinking.

The idea that a student can find an "easy" degree simply by choosing a program granting a particular degree title is ridiculous, in my opinion.

I hope that none of us are blank slates, looking for any kind of doctoral program in any conceivable field, just so long as it's easy.

Something about this whole thread suggests "unclear on the concept" in my mind.

 

The Problem

Without trying to be overly critical, I think the title of this thread represents why many in the educational field have such strong reservations about distance learning. Granted, most distance learning students want to work just as hard as the traditional student, but the title "easiest doctorate" seems to represent just the opposite.

Daniel

 

The Easy Way Out...

I'll be more then happy to attend an in-resident doctoral program... as long as it's easy.

 

I've been tying my shoes since the age of five, so I have mastered this art with a level of expertise which I would consider "doctoral level." Consider the following scenario's in which I have mastered the art of tying shoes:

1. In the dark.
2. While driving.
3. While eating/drinking.
4. While typing a doctoral dissertation.
5. While doing research on the Net.
6. With one hand.
7. Handcuffed.
8. Talking on cell phone.
9. Reading about degree mills.
10. Surfing DegreeInfo.

All that should count for at least three hours of doctoral level credit.

 

DBA without a dissertation?!?

Despite what was written above, you will likely not be able to discover an accredited DBA program which does not require a dissertation, doctoral thesis, or a significant doctoral project. There are two state-approved programs, however, California Coast and SCUPS, which in fact do not require it, and, therefore, those particular degrees lack credibility. (Their PhD's in Business do require a dissertation.) Interestinly, their competitor, California Pacific, insists on a doctoral project for the DBA which can take the form of a dissertation, thesis, or field project. To my knowledge, CCU and SCUPS are the only exceptions to the rule for U.S. accredited and unaccredited universities. If there is indeed a "taught" accredited DBA program in the U.S., please enlighten us.

David April,
BA, University of Massachusetts/Amherst
MBA, Boston College
ACM, Boston College
DBA, California Pacific University

 

Mr. Again writes: "I haven’t even begun to consider the cost of a doctorate. I just assumed it would be around 30 to 45k."

As we point out in Finding Money for College, it is essential to consider lost income as one of the (often significant) costs of doing a degree. It is a rare (but not unheard of) person who does both a full-time demanding job and pretty much full-time doctoral work. So for many, the lost income is even a higher number than the tuition and travel and book costs. On the third hand, the advanced degree may well result in higher income later on.

 

Why be afraid?

What is it that makes people afraid of the thesis/dissertation? Is it that they have to struggle to learn new things, new skills (research, writing, reading, etc)? Heaven forbid that a medical surgeon came to me and asked what the quickest route was to qualifying as a surgeon! If you are truly wanting the academic title 'Dr" then I use the analogy I've used here before. You have to be prepared to struggle like an athlete. You struggle, like an athlete, to get your master's but you cannot continue doing more master's level type activities to get your doctorate and that is what so many people seem to what to do - more of the same- course work! A doctorate is about showing your skills as a researcher, your ability to analyse and synthesise at a higher level and present a piece of work that sheds some sort of new light on something. In the main, no volume of taught course work can do that. If you haven't got the bottle to do the thesis (the struggle) then just walk past it and tell yourself you haven't got what it takes! Be proud of what you can do and get on with life. On the other hand, if you attempt 'the struggle' you may just find that you have got what it takes!

I teach on Europe's oldest DBA programme. Most people get through all the course work and many then fall by the wayside when it comes to the thesis (dissertation)....and these are very senior people, holding very senior jobs, in well known corporations. They are not prepared to learn that an academic research submission is very different from a board room executive summary document ( or short taught course assignments) and therein lies the rub for many of them! I recall a very well known Spanish man coming into my office asking which 26 books he should read for his dissertation. I recall (ten years or more ago now) asking him whether he meant the first 26 or the tenth lot of 26 books!

We are seeing the doctorate degree eroded all the time, all over the world, more so (in my view) in Australia than anywhere else. In the UK they are experimenting at 8 universities with a new type of PhD (course work plus much shorter thesis). Typically, in the UK a PhD by research is an 80,000-100,000 words submission. Now the PhD (mode 2) is course work plus a 50,000 words submission - an, in some cases two shorter pieces of work that total arounf 40,000-50,000 words. Openly, it has been stated this is to attract the Middle Eastern market! Probably the Chinese as well. So, we will soon have two classes of PhD in the UK of which Mode 1 (my terminology) will still remain the one that gets people jobs in academia and mode 2 (my terminology again) will be for commercial/organizational people and to recruit more younger overseas students to full-time doctoral degree studies!. Perhaps there's nothing wrong with both! I'm not convinced.

Alexander Pope: A little learning is a dangerous thing, drink deep or taste not the Pierian Spring!!

 

John,

Thanks for the reply. If I hadn't purchased your book in 1989, I would not have a B.S. today!

I doubt I'll pursue a doctorate, but if I do, it may be at Capella or at a similar school. This website informed me of Capella and has been a wealth of information (and continues to be).

But first, I gotta get through this M.A. program. < sweats bullets >

 

I work at a university in Australia and it is interesting that many of my colleagues think that the UK/Aussie type of PhD is superior to professional doctorates etc because of, it seems, the word limit. It appears to me that the professional doctorates in Australia have a similar structure to the US PhD, ie some course work (eg six courses) followed by a thesis (dissertation) of about 50,000 words ie half the 100,000 words of the PhD. I can't understand this logic that a longer piece of work is necessarily of higher quality. Often the challenge is to keep under a word limit.

Also I can't help but reflect on two of my friends who have PhD's in biology - one was on a weed and the other was on a fungi. They are so specialised, but it poses the question are they lacking the breadth of their field that may be partly addressed by the missing course work offered in professional doctorates and US PhDs?


Just a thought, I don't have a PhD so I don't have any personal experience.

 

Initial reaction!

My initial reaction was to post and answer your points directly! There is a difference! However, I'm going to wait and see what others have to write about this issue!

We'll get there.

 

TELFAX

I totally agree with you. People in my place usually ask "Which is the cheapest MBA or Phd", easy , price is cheap, fast track, etc, etc. Education or degree becomes a commodity. You have variety of choices once you have newspapers or magazine with you.

I doubt the value of buying a degreee based on advertisement in newspaper with choices ranging from "coursework, no exam", or "Course work, no assignment" or "only dissertation". In a meeting conducted by a university to potential EMBA students from finance industry, the vice-president, when answered question from potential customers, said "flexible" in all answer. When it came to the question on price, he said "Ohhh, let us don't talk about this now, otherwise, you all run away"

I am looking for a serious doctorate degree, be it professional doctorate or Phd (I am still considering). Many people have been telling me Phd is more superior than professional doctorate. Most probably, I choose UNISA or India if one is available, considering that I have to campus for residency requirements.

 

The easiest doctorate is the one in the subject you love.

 

OY GEVALT!

One obtains a Ph.D in biology in the process of becoming a biologist and doing biology, right? One obtains a Pharm. D in the process of becoming a pharmacist and learning to do pharmacy, no?

The degree process is a learning, teaching, and research opportunity. It is not a system for obtaining "worthiness", is it? Shouldn't the diploma be an almost incidental mark of the work and expertise of the holder rather than be the holder's sole and greatest achievement?

Otherwise, why not go with DipMill U? I am sure that their diplomas are VERY impressive!

Nosborne, JD
(who obtained his JD in order to be come a lawyer)

 

Re: Don't do it !

Oh Man; lots of food for thought in this thread.

First, I think it’s misleading to consider all EdD programs as ‘created equal.’ In my experience there are some programs, hope I don’t annoy anyone too badly, like educational administration and higher ed that are often considered twinkies. Then, there are some EdD programs like educational research and statistics, and school psychology that are pretty grueling. As regards the bachelor’s level, I think it’s a national tragedy but I believe you’ll find that colleges of education have lower mean SAT and ACT scores than other university schools and colleges. Conventional wisdom when I was a TA was that education majors were less able students. It was certainly so in my experience.

Art, don’t let humble beginnings constrain your aspirations. To say that my undergraduate performance was modest adds new dimensions to euphemism. Hoping the war would end, I crammed a four-year program into five and barely graduated which, in the end, made it just terrifically difficult to win admission to graduate school. I probably should have stopped out and enlisted ‘cause in the end my old Uncle Sam did give me a nice new set of clothes and introduced me to some real nice guys named Sarge . Like you and others in this thread, I caught on when I started the masters. Part of what I had to do is called “learning how to learn.” The other part – without trying to sound too shrinky (which of course I am) -- was I had to sort of work up to the idea of perceiving myself as capable of going on for the doctorate. I get the idea from reading your posts that the issue isn’t you’re lazy or lacking scholastic ability but you’re in the process of sneaking up on the idea that you have the moxie to go wherever you want. I started out thinking about an EdD in something like higher ed and went on from there. I hope you get the same opportunity and wind up something like top cop in one of the major cities. Doesn’t Lee Brown have a PhD in sociology or something?

Dave

 

Russell,

Now you just need to convince TUIU of this. You will still have to come up with a degree plan and dissertation topic. A study on the effect of gravity on shoelaces may work. I have always wondered why the darn things inexplicably untie themselves.

John

 

I am unclear as to how the notion that a doctorate is NOT done to attain "worthiness" in someone's eyes is harmonious with the fact that such degrees are looked upon by certifiers or employers as a qualification. The doctorate is seen in some contexts as making the degree holder "worthy."

Moreover, I think the point should be made that some of us pursue a doctorate primarily for self satisfaction inclusive in which, likely, is the goal of seeing oneself as "worthy." I think this is my case. Vocational change or earning increment is not expected as an effect if I finish the degree. The social circles in which I move will favor me no more were I to acquire a doctorate. Is it a great achievement? To me it is, and probably the climactic one too given my age. Unlike some, I cannot see my prior attainments as very great. I may have some neurosis in doing this, or some blindness as to my motivation, but as far as I know I pursue the doctorate primarily for myself and for only One other!

Then why not a degree mill? Explained above!

 

There have been two postings asserting that DBA degree programs do not require dissertations. Two questions:

1) What do these posters believe they DO require, and 2)can they advance specific examples of accredited "taught" DBAs in the U.S.? I don't think so!

David April, DBA

 

Some connection with the paranormal can be made on this one, John. If Officer's Mulder and Scully from the X-Files could serve on my TUIU doctoral committee (Scully has an earned MD), I may indeed be on to something here.