Do cops assume you have an attorney on speed dial when you drive an MBZ/Jag/BMW

I have absolutely, positively no idea how or why you made the jump from traffic enforcement to beating up suspects, but I will say I don't appreciate the insinuation, regardless of how the long the pole was that you used to put the hat on me.

I said "punitive" because traffic enforcement is the only aspect of my job (at least in my state) where I decide the punishment. When I arrest someone for a criminal offense, they are processed through the court system, where a jury or judge decides their guilt, and a judge metes out the punishment. When I hand someone a civil motor vehicle infraction, I've decided their "guilt" (responsibility, to be technical) and also their "punishment" (the civil fine). Either or both can be overturned on appeal, but then again so can a judge's decisions.

That's true, I wasn't drafted into being a police officer, the same as I wasn't drafted into the military; I volunteered for both. However, I volunteered for the police with pie-in-the-sky notions that the justice system was on the level, and that I could actually make a difference in society. Both are total bullshit; the court system is corrupt to the core, a huge percentage of the citizens either hate us or are jealous of us (why they're jealous, I don't know), and this job is something that sucks the life out of you.

You should really read Signal Zero by Dr. George Kirkham; he was a criminology professor (doctorate from UC-Berkeley) at Florida State University who had all sorts of ideas about the police (such as we volunteered for the job, so suck it up) he learned from textbooks and Ivory Tower academics. He accepted a challenge from a police officer student to go through the police academy, and he worked the worst ghetto beat in Jacksonville during the summer of 1972. To say that his viewpoints on the police and the police culture changed 180-degrees would be a major, major understatement;

krimedr - Home

Being a police officer is one of the things in life that unless you actually do it, you're never going to fully understand it.

 

Yeah, I saw how hard it was for my uncle being a cop. He always had to work holidays, only occasionally making a Christmas. He would try and be closer to the family, but his work, sting operations, etc. called him away. Of course to serve and protect was his nature as he was a combat decorated Korean War Vet. I had his military medals along with his cop badge framed.

Rest in peace Tio,

Abner

 

Bruce I apologize, I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. What I was attempting (seemingly unsuccessfully) to say was that the line of logic that many officers have who have taken the law into their own hands use is that they were "punishing" a wrong committed by the suspect and that the suspect is “guilty” or otherwise has it coming.

This is apparently not how it works in Massachusetts since I see you guys are allowed to determine the cost of a citation in a “civil citation” since you get to write the amount due in the citation itself. It appears also that a civil citation presupposes guilt and that the court hearing is simply an appeal of your decision. I think your state is taking a chicken sh*t way out by calling it “civil” in order to bypass criminal due process since I’ll bet there are criminal penalties for anyone not paying the civil fine, but I digress. That’s not your fault, it’s just the system that you work within.

In Texas a traffic citation is an accusation and the accused is released on recognizance with the summons to appear in court to face the accusations. In other words we get to plead “not guilty” on the citation itself. In this case guilt is determined by a judge or if the defendant requests it and is willing to pay a nominal fee, a jury. I think the fee for where I live is $7.00 or thereabout. This is due process which I think Massachusetts is bypassing. I assumed you were viewing your role as that of judge and jury (which is how guilt is determined in Texas) but it seems your state has bestowed these powers upon you.

Therefore I apologize since you, the officer determines the guilt and fine for civil charges. I was under the wrongful assumption that Massachusetts and Texas traffic enforcement were similar when in fact they are not. I still think that your searching for additional fines and infractions using discretion to levy additional fines unnecessarily simply because they piss you off is not the most professional behavior but you are not corrupt or necessarily unethical in doing so, after all judges do this kind of crap all day every day. Why should cops be any different?

As for reading a book to know what it is like being a cop, I think I’ll pass. My father was a police officer and otherwise in law enforcement most of my childhood. My brother is currently a Sheriff’s Deputy in my county running down warrants. I spent 7 years in federal law enforcement doing intelligence, executive protection, general security and eventually internal affairs. Like you when I signed up it was because I wanted to make a difference. 9/11 happened and galvanized my belief that I needed to get involved in the fight against terrorism and I jumped at the opportunity to do so. Homeland Security moved around various law enforcement bureaus, the Patriot Act created new powers and positions within existing agencies and before I knew it I was hitting the ground on a new and exciting career. It took a few years but eventually the job sucked up all of my free time, cost time with my family and the demands kept growing. I began to resent “normal” people and had a hard time relating to anyone who wasn’t a cop. My friends and family kept telling me how much I changed on the few occasions I did get to see them. I just couldn’t relate to normal “sheeple” life. I worked evenings, weekends and holidays for 7 years so isolated from friends and family that pretty soon the people I worked with took on those roles in my life.

To make a long story short I get police culture, I lived it. When I started doing internal investigations that was the beginning of the end for me. I just couldn’t take it anymore, what I saw and heard destroyed my trust in many of my fellow officers. Soon I was treated as an outsider by the very people that were my most trusted confidants, good people, who felt somehow I had become a traitor or worse. I saw sworn law enforcement officers perjure themselves in order to not be labeled a “snitch” which was a term I thought only applied to criminals. Soon after the politics started to creep in and an officer lost his life in a shooting because of a F’d up “unofficial” policy of a particular agency. Later that agency lied on national television in pointing the finger to another local agency and at that point I realized that I was expendable, political fodder if need be. I realized that I and my family deserved better.

I consider myself very pro-police but I think the system as a whole grinds people up and spits them out. It’s broken, ineffective, ruins lives and I detest it but love the people who work within it as many are my closest friends and a few are my relatives. I guess you can say that becoming acclimated to a normal private life took some getting used to but I’ve successfully made the transition. However now when dealing with the police I am now often suspicious of exactly “who” or “what” I am dealing with anytime I am speaking to an officer, which is fair enough. After investigating so many private individuals in the wrong I’m sure they are equally suspicious of “us” (the general public). I’m sorry if those suspicions were taken out on you Bruce.

 

No need at all to apologize, we're just having a debate about opinons.

However, with all the respect due to federal law enforcement (and I have *huge* respect for them, as they are the best investigators on the planet), unless you've worked a sector car for an urban police department, it's impossible for me or anyone else who has to get across what it's like to someone who hasn't done it. That's absolutely no knock on you or anyone else in federal LE, it's just an observation.

Discretion is the absolute best part of my job, because if I arrested/cited everyone I observed breaking the law, I would spend my entire shift writing reports.

Stay safe out there!

 

Following this thread is painful, lol.

Working as an LEO and studying CJ are two different worlds, couple that with people who have never worked in the field and any attempt at an argument is a moot point. Agree to disagree fellas, everyone's experiences are unique and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

All I know is that online traffic schools rock!!!!!!!!! I paid the ticket, and did my online traffic school course in less than 1 hour!!!!!!! Because they are court approved, they electronically sent my course completion certificate to the court and that was it. No tickets on my record.

No harm, no foul!!!!!!!!!! Yeah baby!!!!!!!!!!

Stay safe out there LEOs.

Abner

 

How did you do your online course in less than an hour? Here in Texas it's at least 6 hours with registration, etc.

 

I guess Cali is more lax. I am not kidding, less than 1 hour!!!!!!!

Winning!


Abner