Discrimination against online degrees

Alex's comments

I agree with all your comments. My analogy to 30 hours per week was just (9/12) x 40 hours per week)) to identify that often folks underestimate academic salaries by not factoring in that Ph.D.s often are paid for a 9 month "year". Clearly, a 30 hour week wouldn't even keep you employed as an assitant working towards tenure.

Part of my thinking about DL degrees, Nova's DBA degree, is that these "platforms" are suited for small, regional institutions of say 1,000 to 3,000 students. Here, you'd get say a 50/50 appointment, but the 50% towards teaching may actually mean something, in as much as job performance would actually be measured by teaching. I think most folks know that regardless of what's said or written, when one gets up into the Carnagie I research institutions, 99% of one's performance is measured in terms of publication and that's fine.

In order to have time "outside of the academic job", one would have to be at a small teaching college I'd think. Given that and if one was a business school professor, it seems logical that selling services in the private sector could make sense.

 

People forget..

degree snobbery goes much further than B&M and DL. Some people at Ivy League schools look down at even traditional students from "state" schools. There are those whom will always feel the need to believe they are better than someone else and that will never change. Dwelling on it doesn't do anyone any good. BTW, I conversed with a professor that holds a PhD from Wharton. He didn't seem to look down on my attempts to obtain a doctorate from South Africa. He actually asked when I would be "going on the market". However, I have had the opposite response from people with doctorates much less prestigious schools. It is all in the eyes of beholder and quite frankly, who gives a crap.....

 

"who gives a crap"

Would that it were so! Unfortunately, in my field, one's law school and class standing follow one throughout his entire career, whether in practice OR in the academy!

 

Yepp

Yes, Law School is different and where you go can be everything. That is symptomatic I think of the clubbishness brought to the system by the ABA. Where else do you have laws that actually prevent you from practicing unless your school had the appropriate professional certification? However, even there you can found your own firm and be successful. There are some lawyers from lower ranking schools that are still making money.....

 

Well, the snobbishness is between ABA schools. Non ABA schools aren't even on the radar screen. So I don't think the ABA itself can be blamed.

Indeed, the ABA circulated a letter signed by virtually every Dean of an ABA school decrying rankings and meaningless and unfair.

 

Cause and effect

Once the ABA starts off saying only these schools are good schools and appropriate for providing lawyers it is downhill from there. The law profession is very clubbish and it has to come from somewhere..

 

Sorting the human race

Yes, credentialization is key to the sorting process. It's almost comical to see how the B-Schools differentiate themselves in building "brand" indentity for their MBA programs.

I suspect that the greatest frustration may be borne by those fully capable of entering top programs in whatever field they select, but who must do DL because of practical life constraints. DL is what it is and certainly it will become more mainstream over the next decade.

I'm probably going to do a doctoral business degree DL in the next few years or so and am just investigating the DL academic industry. I'm amazed at the growth as an industry sector. For whatever folks think about U of Phoenix, their holding company is carring a 21% net margin (over $110 million) on the U of P subsidiary. The industry is strong and growing rapidly.

In America, where depth of demand exists, the private sector will step up and deliver the goods. I think MIT's repudiation of DL as a viable business model, as evidenced by their intention to give away all their courswork for free because of its inherant worthlessness because it is divoriced from classroom delivery, bite them in the butt. I beleive that this "group think" ivory tower mentality will diminish as the private sector continues to take larger bites out of the institution of academia.

I'm babbling. Sorry, but the snobbery will always be present, albeit in a diminshed capacity going forward I'd think. Over all compentency may yet become more imporatant than "club membership".

 

Last year, I informed the Program Director (at AU) of the UWO refusal to accept their degree [for Phd studies] and I didn't get the reaction I expected. I think people in positions of power [at DL schools] are bombarded daily with questions of credibility, and thus, quickly become disinterested.

I think it is the other way round.

It is one's problem to get where they want or are supposed to get, hence to bear all costs for litigation etc.
The DL university ought to only supply all materials relevant to accreditation.

After all, it's unwise to expect they would patronize every & any applicant having problems turning their (legal & chartered ) degree into something of personal use.

Some issues may need litigation; again it's one's concern, as if they discovered diamonds in your garden & you wanted to claim ownership against "public interest" & stuff alike.
If one isn't prepared for that, then they
seriously need to question their choice of DL schools.
Open University told me straight away (upon precise question) that i HAVE TO expect objections to the equipollence of my otherwise legal & chartered degree.

If you think, there are B&M students who are denied access to professional guilds, bodies & further study option not because of their GPA, but because of their university's lack of nobility titles.

A DL degree never was, never will be just a B&M degree under another name.

 

ham:

You know, you're right. D/L and B&M really ARE different experiences. I am less sure, however, that discrimination between the two for employment or further academic pursuits is justified by objective deficiencies in either one.

 

I agree. It's important to note that while these two degree types are, in fact, different, this does not necessarily signify good/bad or better/worse, etc. It is easy for me to imagine a person with a DL degree actually being better educated than a B&M counterpart. How often this might actually happen is debatable but I'm betting that no one has stats on this so we're all just expressing opinions.
Jack

 

agreed... actually, I've felt that I've learnt more through DL than if I would have taken these same courses B&M-style. I'm glad, I've experienced both, so I can in fact draw a comparison (some what)

 

To me it makes no difference.
While studying in Italy, i would prepare on my own, then sit a state university exam over like say 3-5000 pages of books.
The typical methodology was: professor would open books at random & at random ask questions, very DETAILED questions.
Either you knew the book by heart or...
Then there is the grade.
Sure you could manage to slip through the net.
A sample modern ages history question: who is the marquis of Los Balbases?
Well, he was mentioned in a footer note at say page 350 of a 600 pages book in tiny print for being the son of the italian general who helped Philip II of Spain to fight revolts in Italy & the Netherlands ( the beginning of the dutch independence war ).
Hence i'm perfectly fine with DL.
In Canada it was the other way round.
They'd babble about the latest philosophical & political gibberish, yet had no or little idea about Plato, Aristotle or even Max Stirner.
However
Some people should be very careful because (like it or not ) B&M & DL are two different, separate things, which can't be swapped.

 

Amazed

Wow, I am truly amazed. I had no idea that that you had to starve to death to get into academia.

You truly have to love this stuff to do it don't you?

My hat is off to all of you folks that do this. I can't believe all that I have learned from hanging around this board.