Discrimination against online degrees

Thought as much. Come on Rich, what's the name of the school, why be ashamed to say it.

Afraid I will check it out?

Well hope I don't catch you asking people to prove where they work or where their degree is from in the future. Yawn

 

Despite the fact that your comments are almost always worthless ; you definitely make these threads interesting.

 

Discrimination at the graduate level

I contacted York University and the University of Western Ontario [in Canada] to ask it they would accept an MA, completed via distance studies, as a stepping stone to their Phd programs. They both balked at the idea. Not a chance.

 

Re: Discrimination at the graduate level

Which University was refused for admission? If you get a DL MA from a University that has on-campus and online programs, How can they know that it was completed online?.

 

Rich-

I have been viewing this board for quite some time. I enjoy your posts and your insight and expertise has been of great value to me. I hope to gleen as much of your knowledge and wisdom that I can.

Keep up the good work. If you had a book I would buy it

 

DL discrimination

Good point! However, the program I was referring to was the MA-Intergrated Studies program at Athabasca University. Since this institution offers DL exclusivly, they would automatically know how the degree was completed.

 

Re: DL discrimination

Western Ontario is very well known for its snobbery, however, I'm surprised about York. Western wouldn't accept even an MA earned on-campus at a low tier Canadian school. My suggestion is to try with a more "DL friendly" schools like Waterloo or U . of Toronto.

If Western and York refuses you only because the degree was earned via DL, I would bring this up with aucc (association of universities of Canada) since Athabasca is a member and all the Canadian universities should recognize degrees from members of the AUCC.

 

My two cents...

It is interesting to read this thread. I am pursuing my BS online and my employer is thrilled and is supportive by allowing me to work 4 ten hour days and take Fridays off to complete my assignments.
I live in an area that does not have access to higher education. The nearest four year institution is an an hour and half away (one way). It would be impossible to attend classes two or three nights a week, work, etc..

For me, online education is really the only way I can complete my degree and it has opened up access in a way never thought possible before.

On a side note...

Here in California many of the community colleges are embracing DL education with open arms. Cerro Coso Community College has emerged as the leader among the CA community colleges in offering 12 completely online AA/AS degrees. The way I understand it-about six or seven years ago they were on the verge of being closed down becuase of lack of attendance. They implemented the online program and it is huge. They have students from all over the country and I have had several military members from Germany in my classes too. One advantage to the school is they can offer more classes without having to supply classrooms.

 

DL discrimination

Thanks for the information. Regarding York, this was the Anthropology Dept., and doesn't speak to the entire school.

Thanks again,

 

The Law Faculty of the University of British Columbia won't accept degrees or credits earned in external or distance programs. Maybe the Canadian university system is more conservative than we are?

 

I spoke to the director at U of Toronto's Ph.d program in managment and he told me that although they use to frown on these degrees, and in light of the resurgence of non traditional education, they would accept the degree as a prerequisite as long as the degree was reigonaly accredited.

 

Re: Discrimination at the graduate level

Good schools with outmoded ideas...

 

Certainly there are plenty of PhD holders who make $90K and more, but I wouldn't exactly call it typical. I've copied some data below from the 2000 Census, showing median salaries according to education. I included the tables for the USA as a whole, a relatively high income state (California), and a relatively low income state (West Virginia). The median salary for advanced degree holders ages 21-64 was $55,242 in the USA as a whole, $65,101 for California, and $41,485 for West Virginia. None of these medians are close to $90,000.

After I got my PhD in the mid 1990s (from an RA school) I spent three years in postdoctoral research jobs earning well under $30,000 per year. As an assistant professor for several years, I earned in the low-mid $40,000s. My salary experience was very typical for a PhD graduate in life sciences during that time. Salary supplementation was possible through summer teaching, but aside from that, few tenure-track faculty in biology had much time for external income activities while trying to build up a tenure portfolio. I fit in a small amount of textbook editing, but it didn't make a huge difference in annual salary.

As a state worker outside of academia, I now earn somewhat below the median salary for advanced degree holders in my state.

Of course, as others here have suggested, faculty in business and law and a few other fields usually make MUCH more than the medians described above. They represent the high end of the scale- not the median.

Alex

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/earnings/call1usboth.html

Employment, Work Experience, and Earnings by Age and Education: Civilian Noninstitutional Population
(Data from the 2000 Census. Workers who worked 50 weeks or more and 35 or more hours per week in 1999 were classified
as year-round full-time (YRFT) workers. The relative earnings of a given group equals the median earnings of the group
divided by $32,717, the median earnings of US YRFT workers aged 21 to 64, times 100)

UNITED STATES: BOTH SEXES

Total Worked year-round full-time in 1999
Employed Relative
Perc. Median earnings
Number dist. Number Percent Number Percent earnings (US Med=100)

21 to 64 years 158,567,665 100.0 116,522,970 73.5 85,583,365 54.0 $32,717 100.0
Not a high school graduate 19,543,685 12.3 10,109,190 51.7 6,528,410 33.4 $21,332 65.2
High school graduate 44,071,390 27.8 31,150,550 70.7 23,102,845 52.4 $27,351 83.6
Some college 48,530,160 30.6 37,571,090 77.4 27,232,610 56.1 $31,988 97.8
Bachelor degree 26,875,435 16.9 22,288,790 82.9 17,008,095 63.3 $42,877 131.1
Advanced degree 13,901,140 8.8 11,986,215 86.2 9,319,410 67.0 $55,242 168.8



http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/earnings/call1caboth.html
CALIFORNIA: BOTH SEXES

Total Worked year-round full-time in 1999
Employed Relative
Perc. Median earnings
Number dist. Number Percent Number Percent earnings (US Med=100)

21 to 64 years 19,109,110 100.0 13,346,390 69.8 9,041,910 47.3 $37,298 114.0
Not a high school graduate 3,282,360 17.2 1,652,985 50.4 926,960 28.2 $19,314 59.0
High school graduate 3,682,910 19.3 2,415,110 65.6 1,620,520 44.0 $29,821 91.1
Some college 6,113,005 32.0 4,539,405 74.3 3,079,310 50.4 $36,606 111.9
Bachelor degree 3,391,395 17.7 2,741,245 80.8 1,990,735 58.7 $50,306 153.8
Advanced degree 1,745,110 9.1 1,483,600 85.0 1,104,350 63.3 $65,101 199.0



http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/earnings/call1wvboth.html
WEST VIRGINIA: BOTH SEXES

Total Worked year-round full-time in 1999
Employed Relative
Perc. Median earnings
Number dist. Number Percent Number Percent earnings (US Med=100)

21 to 64 years 1,034,765 100.0 665,965 64.4 481,930 46.6 $27,382 83.7
Not a high school graduate 160,010 15.5 56,960 35.6 36,055 22.5 $20,856 63.7
High school graduate 422,865 40.9 265,550 62.8 190,260 45.0 $23,531 71.9
Some college 256,500 24.8 186,970 72.9 134,020 52.3 $27,051 82.7
Bachelor degree 103,285 10.0 85,260 82.5 66,330 64.2 $34,862 106.6
Advanced degree 62,930 6.1 55,460 88.1 44,340 70.5 $41,485 126.8

 

Professors in law schools often make significantly more than Ph.D. professors in the arts and sciences. Why? Because the J.D. is more valuable in the marketplace than most Ph.D.s. They pay more because they HAVE to pay more.

This is also reflected, now, in the University of California tuition rates. Law students pay an additional "Professional Degree Fee" of several thousands of dollars on top of the standard graduate tuition that they, and Ph.D. students, have always paid. Why do they charge J.D. students more? Because the UC system is close to fiscal collapse and they CAN because J.D. grads are able to command good salaries after graduation.

Another interesting example is the University of Washington's graduate law program. They have different rates for in-state and out-of-state students and the rates are comparable to other master's degree programs EXCEPT for the LL.M. in taxation. For THAT, they charge everyone the same heart stopping amount, about $25,000 total. Why? Again, because they CAN. And really, since few poor people need pro bono help fro a tax attorney (though it DOES happen), why SHOULD the State subsidize this degree program? So Standard Oil can pay a smaller salary?

 

Correction

Dr. Houston was (?) a physics professor at the University of Louisiana - Lafayette--not LSU- Lafayette. For the record: for there is no LSU Lafayette.

 

as long as the degree was reigonaly accredited.

in Canada there is no regional accreditation.
every province decides on its own.
i think it would be illegal to deny access to graduates of ANY chartered university, no matter whether Athabasca or BC open.
A call to the federal govt should sort it out pretty quickly.

 

I agree. All Canadian degrees are equal whether its from Athabasca or Western Ontario as long as its govt recognized. If they deny someone admission because its a distance degree I think the matter can be taken higher with the goverment and the association of distance education.

As far as I know Athabasca and BCOU have great programs and quite tough/strict evaluation/exams. Maybe York and WO are a little strict on admission to their PhD program. What if someone wants to get into their MS/MA program after doing a DL degree from Athabasca. Will they not allow admission only because its DL? Fritz you should check what they say about this and then discuss what AU and BCOU says about this ?

 

Discrimination

Hi.
Regarding the question concerning entrance into UWO/York from undergraduate to graduate studies, I would guess the song would remain the same at UWO--York I'm not sure. Sadly, many schools in Ontario do not give the credence DL schools deserve. Last year, I informed the Program Director (at AU) of the UWO refusal to accept their degree [for Phd studies] and I didn't get the reaction I expected. I think people in positions of power [at DL schools] are bombarded daily with questions of credibility, and thus, quickly become disinterested.

 

PhD's compensation

my 2 cents: nice thread

I was in a B & M doctoral program for a couple years in a b-school in south carolina. The "salaries" are for 9 month appointments, so that's like a 30 hour week if you equate it to an annualized schedule. Making cash as a PhD depends on whether your in a field that is marketable outside the instituition. If your skills are, the schools pays more to keep you in the institution, hence finance profs get the most (excluding law and med).

Many phd's who have bludgended themselves long enough to publish their way into an associate's position (tenured), then undertake all kinds of enterprises outside the school. There has been and always will be a great outcry that academic salaries shoudl be equal across the humanities and business school fields. The market simply disagrees and schools pay much more to employ those who's skills are valuable in the private sector.

That was my experience from the inside, since I was in my early 40's while in the program. Maybe others have other experiences...

 

Re: PhD's compensation

I don't think many pre-tenure profs regularly work a 40-hr week during the 9-month year. In my case, it averaged more like 70 hr per week, which equates to an annualized rate of about 48-50 hr per week if no work is done during the summer. I think the 70 hr week is pretty typical for pre-tenure faculty in the sciences.

In addition to whatever time pre-tenure faculty may spend on summer teaching, many hours of the summer will be spent writing grant proposals, doing research, preparing classes for the next year, etc. No payment is usually received for this summer work unless the faculty member has outside grant funding for a summer salary supplement.

So, in almost every case, it is far more than an annualized average of 30 hr/week for pre-tenure faculty. And at many places, post-tenure review is diminishing the differences between tenured and non-tenured status, in terms of workload.

It is true that universities really have no choice but to pay what the market demands. In many fields, there are plenty of PhDs who will gladly accept a relatively low salary in order to have an academic job. Faculty in finance, law, medicine, and a few other fields simply won't work for the low salaries, so the schools have no choice but to offer them more. It may not be "fair" in that they're doing the same basic work as faculty in other fields who have far lower salaries, but that's the way the free market works!

Alex