DETC Pilot Doctor of Business Admin and Education

Has anybody heard any latest news regarding DETC pilot Doctor of Business Admin and Doctor of Education? When will the school start to offer these degrees? And how much will it cost?

 

You might check out the Distance Education and Training Council website www.detc.org for further info. I've forgotten whether there were to be six schools or four in the DETC pilot doctoral accreditation project. So far, the only program that I've heard about in the pilot doctoral accreditation project is the DBA program of Columbia Southern University www.columbiasouthern.edu , which allegedly was going to open in Fall 2006.

 

Re: Re: DETC Pilot Doctor of Business Admin and Education

I couldn't find any recent development from DETC and Columbia Southern U websites, that's why I am asking.

 

Perhaps I'm being a snobbish ass here, but if I had a degree from UC Berkeley (!) and an MBA from a very legit AACSB-accredited school, I don't think I'd be falling all over myself to sign up for a DETC-only doctoral program.

Ya know, there are AACSB programs overseas that have DBA and PhD programs in Managment that are offered at a distance. Some of them are from some of the top byusiness schools in the world: Henley, Manchester, Aston, Grenoble. And if money is an object, there are some solid, credible (albeit non-AACSB) DL business doctoral programs in South Africa that would beat--in my not-so-humble opinion--any DETC hands down. I think UNISA and the U of Pretoria might fit the bill.

I'd just be reticent to cap off your very solid academic career thus far with anything less than a great school. (nothing against Columbia Southern, that's a real Uni, I know, but it's no UC Berkeley, whereas the Brit schools are.

 

This depends, If you are a community college professor looking for a pay increase. May be the DETC DBA is more than enough for your needs so the extra money and effort for an AACSB DBA might not worth the effort.


The same for a established professional in the field, would it really matter if your DBA is from Columbia Southern or Touro if you are already an established professional making 150K a year?

AACSB accreditation would matter if you are looking to become a full time faculty member at an AACSB accreditation institution but this might not be the goal of all the prospect students.

 

I agree that if you're established in an academic institution and you just need the doctorate for the pay bump or to keep your job (if administration is leaning on you to look good for them because they want to print "Dr." in front of your name), then DETC would fit the bill. Same goes for a professional just seeking knowledge as opposed to a ticket to the big show.

But it's still my inclination to agree with Steve that a SA doctorate would be much greater bang for the buck. And for a whole lot of people in academia, even at 4 year colleges--and perhaps even some 2 years--AACSB would likely be the safer route. It's getting more competitive down here at the bottom. I know, because it's there that I dwell (CC adjunct). I related in another thread recently how our last hire in a department related to mine was a History prof who holds two Masters and a PhD--and is well underway to finishing his second PhD! It's not that competitive all over, and his was an unusual coup for my little 700 student college in a town of 11,000 population, but still, it can be surprisingly tough.

One more story on the competitiveness of academic positions: I applied two years ago for a 9 month appointment, non-tenure eligible position teaching business law at a neighboring state's 4th or 5th largest state U--in other words, not all that substantial a school and the very bottom rung of FT academia to boot--temporary instructor. I thought with my law degree from a top tier, a decade in the bar and some college teaching experience, I'd at least get a look, perhaps even the job. But not even an interview, nothing. When I called the department head to find out what they were looking for, he told me they would prefer someone with an LL.M or an MBA to supplement their JD, perhaps both. Oh, and a solid record of publishing would be nice also. LL.M? MBA? Publishing? For a temporary instructor position not likely paying more that $45,000/yr?

I was stunned.

They were also advertising for a full time, tenure eligible position teaching business law, probably started in the $60Ks. What, for the love of all things good and noble, did they expect for that position, I asked him. "Oh, we've had people who were first in their law school class apply for that one, we have 66 applications to sift through.

My oh my! So I immediately put in my application for one of those top-notch online MBA programs: UMass. Expensive--$660 cr/hr--and has eaten into our savings mightily; we're now going to have to take out a loan to keep it going what with my recent job upheavals. I've also joined a professional academic society--the ALSB--and am gearing up to try and present some papers and get published. All while working another job and raising 5 children.

But that's the price of the ticket to the show, gotta pay it. There are seldom easy ways out, and DETC may work some times, and may keep you in the house if you're already there. But it's not likely to open the doors to solid academia. Just a fair warning.

 

I wouldn't expect any announcements until after the DETC Commission meeting in early June.

The DETC Commission and staff are proceeding very carefully on any proposed pilot programs.

 

With the exception of a spouse of a tenure-track faculty member, I would be extremely suspicious of anyone with those credentials applying for a b law teaching position at those salaries.

 

Credential inflation is basically the main issue nowadays. The phenomenon of grade inflation leads to credential inflation to the point that you need to ask for a doctorate for a position that used to require a masters and masters for a position that required only a bachelors. The credential inflation seems to get worst with the time as more PhDs are coming to the market with the advent of online PhDs.

Traditional schools graduate 1 or 2 PhDs in a given field per year and accept only 2 or 3% of the PhD applicants while online schools accept virtually anyone and graduate in the order of hundreds of PhDs per year. The market would become saturated so you will start seeing PhD requirements even for adjunct or part time positions.

Eventually, we will start seeing more positions that would require post docs as the credential inflation continues.

 

You know, I gotta agree, the wages were paltry and for someone to possess two degrees, either of which could get a job that paid substantially more than the one offered, and yet still hungrily pursue such a job should raise red flags.

Perhaps the dept head was being a little on the hyperbolic side when we spoke. But I can verify that my US News & World Report top tier law degree, my decade of practice, and my year of college teaching (four classes) did not even garner me a single whit of consideration, not even the lowly phone interview. In fact, in all my applications for college teaching positions, I have gotten exactly one phone interview, and I later found out I was very quickly thereafter dismissed as out of my league due to lack of substantial teaching experience. They were just leading me on and felt they owed me the initial interview because I knew the assistant dean. More a favor than real consideration.

 

Two thoughts: (1) These folks often hire who they know and they didn't know you; (2) While the JD is usually considered to be a doctorate for academic pay, most business schools understand it to be a masters degree for hiring purposes (i. e., the minimum qualification), because it really isn't a doctorate. In sum, don't let this isolated case of someone not understanding or appreciating your skills dissuade you from your goals.

Dave

 

I appreciate that, Dave. Thanks.

I've learned a lot over the last few years about academia, and much of it was a shock. I'm now pursuing that which I hope will get me there: an MBA online from UMass (at about the price of a just-broken-in Audi A6, my dream car, or about the cost of paying off half the remaining mortgage on the house, my wife's dream, or enough to go on at least two or three European vacations for the whole family). I'm also getting to know business department heads within a 300 mile radius, at least on an acquaintance basis. You're right about knowing the right people, it's just about as important in academia as industry.

My law degree is technically the right degree for business law positions, and is typically considered a "doctorate" for pay scale purposes in academia, but as a practical matter, I know that I need more education. A PhD would be nice, but I don't think feasible with my first child hitting college age within about a half-dozen years and me still at least a year out from finishing the MBA. This is part of the reason I'm pursuing academia: for the tuition break that most schools offer a prof's dependants (I have 5 children and the wife has a 6th in the hopper), it would just about break us to try to put them all through without some sort of help.

One consolation I have is that there are a number of business law positions at universities out there for which the JD/MBA combo is considered hitting the nail on the head (so long as accompanied by scholarly writing) and hundreds of smaller colleges that give serious consideration to a JD/MBA for a straight business professor position.

So I think I'm heading the right direction, but if you have other info, I'm all ears.

 

Given your unique situation, you might consider the DBL degree from UNISA after you complete your MBA. It is very reasonably priced and would be a nice addition to your current MBA. I was admitted into the UNISA DBL program but ended up going different direction; it might fit your needs.

What is interesting about academia is the wide variety of subjectivity that goes into hiring practices. I've interviewed with tenured facutly whom I wouldn't have hired for their current position and that didn't hire me. I have also interviewed with brilliant people who didn't hire me. Is there something to be learned from either case? Probably nothing. The first made a mistake and last one was looking for something else. Never take this process personally; it's nearly all subjective.

 

I made friends with several full time professors and instructors at schools I attended. They told me while their teaching jobs paid low salaries it was compensated for by lots of time off and income from consulting.

 

CC's are still RA so this is simply false - any degrees they are paid for MUST be RA.

 

Maybe he should've said "small college". There are some small colleges, sectarian ones and such, that accept most any degree.

 

If a college is RA - no NA degree is going to count.

 

I know of a department head at a small RA college who got one doctorate from a non-RA foreign school and another from a school--Clayton--that to my knowledge has no legitimate accreditation whatever. I mentioned him in another thread. There are others like him around the country.

Schools pretty much can hire who they want, can't they? They can give PhD wages to whomever they want, can't they? People occasionally--very occasionally, I know--will hold no degree at all, yet teach at the university level. If I'm missing some regulation here, let me know. But I certainly know of the one fellow who has listed on college websites the non-accredited degree and the foreign (and hence non-RA or NA degree).

 

A foreign government-recognized PhD counts as RA. And no, schools can't "do what they want" - that's the reason for accreditation inspections.

How about this - you really don't know the circumstances of this dept head and you are not afraid to make statements that are not grounded in fact.