DETC giveth and (maybe) taketh away.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Johann, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yes, let us return to examining the DETC's incredibly poor accrediting practices and results. Much more fun.
  2. okydd

    okydd New Member

    That is exactly the point I was making**-... incredibly poor accrediting practices and results.
  3. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I attended a DETC school as well as a RA school. I have to say the only time I was challenged in the least was with AJU. I had an almost perfect GPA at Clovis CC, and well I don't even want to talk about my GPA at AJU. I value my AJU degree more than my Clovis degree.

    I would take any DETC school over U of Phx anyday.
  4. Petedude

    Petedude New Member

    You can, but it might not do you much good.

    If you're trying to run a low-end trade school business to make a few quick $$, you could get some low-end accreditation below that of DETC. It's not a highly sustainable business model IMO, but you could make a few $$.

    The different accreditation tiers not only help validate the education of the schools at particular levels, but they also help regulate/dictate how schools will behave. You can see a marked difference between facilities and capabilities of schools that operate at different levels of accreditation. The low-end NA trade schools (non-DETC) make themselves pretty evident-- they are less professionally run and it's usually evident on the surface (website, staff, facilities).

    One of the other things the USA does pretty well at-- not perfectly, but pretty well-- is run a market economy where (at least some) people will look at what you're doing before they plunk down their money. Information is freely available, so if you're running a low-end education business and smarter students pick up on that, you're just not going to get many takers.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2012
  5. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    There is no doubt that the DETC has accredited some schools that probably shouldn't be accredited by a local junkyard. However, regional accreditors have done the same.

    On a slightly different note; I recently read an article about a Stanford instructor who was teaching a certification course online and she talked about how students were obviously cheating on exams, yet the school had no proper measures in place to prevent it. This surprised me because Stanford is a very highly regarded institution in part because of its reputation for high academic standards, but it seems like a lot of RA schools no matter what their B&M rep is, treat the online arm with policies that are just far too simple for students to sidestep without consequence.

    I went to an RA online program and there were no proctored exams there either, but it was an atrocious school so I just thought it was unique to that program. Then I watched a number of videos online about students complaining about their RA online program not mandating proctors. Unless it's DETC policy to make proctored exams mandatory, then I could imagine there being DETC schools that don't require proctors for exams, too. But, I know New Charter University requires them, I know Ashworth College does, and the same with a number of other DETC programs I've researched as well. Me personally... I would be wary of any school that doesn't, especially after reading student' comments bragging online about how they'd paid their friends to take the exams for them. Not that this doesn't happen offline, or that it wouldn't be possible to do with an online program that does require proctored exams, but still.
  6. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Your experience doesn't say much about the entire gamut of RA and DETC schools, only that some RA schools may be less rigorous in some courses than some DETC schools.

    Consider: If I were to create a Maniac Craniac Hall of Fame, inducting first Michael Jordan and Isaac Newton, would that then lend credibility to Snooki and Jerry Sandusky if I happened to induct them as well? Your schools may have been amazing, but it wasn't the accreditation that made them that way. They very well could have accredited a bunch of crap along with them. EDIT: Not that I know, of course, I was just responding to the point you made in your post.
  7. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    That's my point.
  8. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    How do you know that it is the envy of the world? Big call. It assumes that the other western democratic systems are inferior. Produce the eividence to ground the statement
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Small call. Here's one piece, where 14 of the top 20 universities in the world are in the U.S.: Top 400 - The Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2011-2012

    This can be argued many other ways. Or not at all.
  10. okydd

    okydd New Member

    As a former senior manager (finance) of a school board, I am fully aware that post secondary education is a small part of an educational system. Anymore more stats?
  11. okydd

    okydd New Member

    That’s what I though there is no such evidence.

    In the math and sciences, I think we all know which countries are the finest.

    In addition, the evidence is easily available for which countries have the finest ece, primary, and secondary education system.
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Your turn. Got anything that even remotely belies the point?
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Well, the point was made about higher education, not primary and secondary.

    Your evidence? I mean, besides statements like "I think we all know..." and "...the evidence is easily available..."

    Or don't. It really doesn't matter.
  14. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    Or not at all is probably a good deal. I will, however, make a small point. The survey quoted is about the reputation of individual universities, not systems nor the issue of envy. As I understand it, the US system is highly differentiated in quality and access - see Oregon Degree Authorisation - "Idaho, Hawaii, Montana, and California have either no meaningful standards, excessive loopholes or poor enforcement owing to local policy or insufficient staff. Degrees issued by unaccredited private colleges in Idaho should be evaluated with great caution." California exceeds the size of many small countries in geography and population and that is not an overwhelming endorsement of systematic excellence.
    This thread is one that seems largely critical of a particular accrediting body. How does that fit into the consideration of systematic excellence? There are also a number of potential consumers of higher education on this forum seeking to go to South Africa because of the lower financial barrier to entry.

    I have never heard the word "envy" applied to the US system by any educationalist in my country. Generally, it is not an issue that arises for discussion. This is not to say that good research from the US is not mentioned or recognized, but envy ,never. I would argue that, in this of rapid change and growth, it is not possible to say definitively that any country envies another in terms of education, as each country has a different professional structure, different expectations at each degree level, and different modes of instruction. The cultural differences significantly impede generalised statements that apply across the board. Globalization and its networks has rendered comparisons meaningless in any case.

    Incidentally, my undergrad is from a US regionally accredited university while my post grad degrees are from an Australian University. I am studying with a detc university because of the cost differential and how I will use the degree. It meets my objectives. Anyway, I am sure that I will not alter your perspective and you mine, so lets move on.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2012
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Right. Unaccredited schools. Those aren't part of the U.S. higher education system, which is defined by accredited schools. The existence of diploma mills and unaccredited schools is one of law enforcement and/or licensure, not accreditation.
    What? The UC and Cal State systems? Really?
    There are excellent and serviceable universities all over the world.
  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well... they're part of the U.S. higher education system, even though they're overseen at the state level and not by a third party that's been approved by the U.S. Department of Education. (And even ED is primarily just concerned with Title IV issues.)
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The US has the best Universities of the world but they have not been able to deal with the huge cost of education.

    The British system is perhaps one of the cheapest and most flexible education systems. One does not need to invest 100K in higher education, the system is flexible enough so you can study on your own and achieve a professional qualification such as ACCA, Computer British Society, ABE, etc that can be converted into a Master's degree for a total of less than 10K.

    If I had to chose, I would go with the British system because its low cost and high quality.

    British schools also score very well in referred times of higher eduction site.
  18. emmzee

    emmzee New Member

    Unfortunately those British schools are really expensive for international students. :'(
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    What I meant by professional qualifications are those achieved by examination. For example, ACCA is considered a master's degree in the UK and it is only based on examination. The whole qualification would cost less than 2K.

    You have plenty of these qualifications by examinations including ACCA, ABE, AIA, British Computer Society, etc.

    In few words, there is no need to go to University in the Uk, most of these qualifications by examination are enough to land professional work. Many of these qualifications can be converted into degrees with a dissertation or few extra classes.

    We don't have this in Canada, if your want to be an Accountant for example, you have no choice but to go to University or college. In the UK, you can become an accountant by examination only without setting your foot at the University.

    Universities are cheaper even for international students in the UK. A doctorate at a top UK school costs 50K. A doctorate at a good school in the US would cost more than 100K.

    Programs are also shorter in the UK, a Masters is one year and a doctorate 3 years while in the US most Masters are a year and a half and PhD are 4 to 5 years.

    We can argue that British education is more watered down but the reality is that academics with a 3 year PhD can manage to publish and teach the same as people with 4 or 5 year PhDs.

    I just think the British are more efficient at this.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2012
  20. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    When the University of Atlanta first started out I gave them a ring just to check things out, kick the tires so to speak. They gave me a bad vibe right off the bat and had red flags everywhere such as promising new graduate programs that were "coming soon" and unpublished tuition rates (a sure sign of a rip-off in my book) and of course the highly generic branding complete with stock photos, you know the kind that show someone in a graduation gown with three or four very diverse looking friends clutching what one could assume to be a diploma all smiling or the ever present coffee mug and laptop sitting on the white floor in a white room looking very pleased or my personal favorite a graduation gown wearing guy holding a laptop that is open. I'm thinking about starting an online museum of cheesy educational marketing'd be the biggest hilarious bore since the last Woody Allen film.

Share This Page