DETC Doctorate: How Soon?

You are absolutely right. Up until 2000, UMUC was listed as being in College Park. In 2000, MD rezoned College Park and Adelphi and moved the line to University Blvd. This makes UMUC and UMCP distinctly different. The reasoning was that people's transcripts got lost -- some went to CP, other UC. This made things easier, as well as gave UMUC a more distinct location.

By the way, all of the UoM's are completely different institutions. I should know, I previously worked for UMUC and the University System of MD (USM) and one of the reasons that everyone who went to any of them says “I went to the ‘University of Maryland’” is because saying the entire thing would be tiring. For example, there are five U of Mass. No one says I went to the "University of Massachusetts at Lowe, or Amherst," etc. Most graduates simply say that they went to the "Univ. of Mass." Everyone I know of says Univ of MD for UMUC. It's easier.

To better understand the 5 UoMs and the other schools in the USM look at their website: http://www.usmd.edu/

Plus, I don't think its prudent for a UMCP grad to simply say that they went to the "U of MD" when they're diploma blatantly states "University of Maryland - College Park" and then expect everyone else who graduated from one of the other 4 schools to say that thy went to UMUC, UMBC, UMES, etc.

I just never claim to be a Terp! (Since UMUC students use UMCP building for night classes though, some call themselves "night terps." I never did such foolishness).

 

I'm "Very Mistaken" huh?

UMAB Diploma:

http://www.framingsuccess.com/framing2/[email protected]?SEARCH_CATEG01=Diploma%20with%20Black/Gold%20Double%20Mat&SEARCH_PLINID=MD18&SEARCH_CATEG09=Y&SEARCH_CATEG03=Y

UMBC Diploma:

http://www.framingsuccess.com/framing2/[email protected]?SEARCH_CATEG01=Diploma%20with%20Black/Gold%20Double%20Mat&SEARCH_PLINID=MD13&SEARCH_CATEG09=Y&SEARCH_CATEG03=Y

UMCP Diploma:

http://diplomasforless.com/samples/mary.jpg

UMUC Diploma: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.works-lives.com/resume/resume_versions/UMUC_BS_diploma.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.works-lives.com/resume/&h=593&w=800&sz=69&tbnid=8RnoeGv_i1MJ:&tbnh=105&tbnw=141&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dumuc%2Bbs%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN (upper left corner)

I can't find a UMES diploma right now, but trust me, it says "Eastern Shore" on it. I think going to the Stamp Student Union in College Park Every day for two years and working for the USM, I might know what I'm talking about.

I do take offense.

 

For those interested in the University System of Maryland and its 11 schools:

http://www.usmd.edu/Institutions/

Diplomas from University of Maryland should include the name of the specific college or school according to Regent guidelines.
http://www.testudo.umd.edu/diploma.html

 

Here is the DETC doctoral accreditation proposal dated June 2004:
http://www.detc.org Go to About Us, DETC Accrediting Commission, scroll down to Comments Invited on Doctoral Degree Programs. I tried posting the direct link but no go.

 

Wanna-be elitist?

You should get a lot of flack. Your assertions are plain false. Acceptance issues aside, CHEA and USDE make no distinctions between NA and RA.

If you think for one second that NCU graduate programs are of higher quality than, say, Aspen or Taft graduate programs, you are out of your mind. I'm sure, as an elitist, you would like to think your NCU RA education is better, but that just isn't the case.

On a side note, isn't SCUPS under the same ownership as NCU? Aren't their programs and delivery methods quite similar? Wasn't SCUPS recently denied DETC accreditation? Hmmm

 

Here is the link:


http://www.detc.org/downloads/

and look for the final policy on doctoral programs in the list and click on it.

 

I live in Massachusetts, many people I know have degrees from the UMass system, and in my experience, quite the opposite of what you state is true. When people say where they went to school, they'll say, "I went to UMass Amherst", or "I went to UMass Boston". The UMass campuses are so far apart, and they have such different concentrations that people here generally don't think of them as being the same at all, except for the "UMass" prefix. If you tell someone from Massachusetts that you "attended University of Massachusetts", there may be a few moments of uncomfortable silence as the listener waits for you to finish your sentence.

 

Hmmm...many on this forum have stated UMUC was not part of the U of Maryland education system, but rather a seperate entity accredited by the same RA Body--following your link it is listed as one of the eleven U of Maryland schools, interesting.

Bill Parker

 

Re: Wanna-be elitist?

Hyperbole, name-calling, and unsupported assertions are not proof. Try again.

 

Good day everyone. I have been reading this board for a while and just decided recently to register and comment.

I specifically find it interesting to read through the never ending debate between RA and NA, and I think it interesting how passionate individuals become and how that passion affects their arguments.

One of the points that I rarely see brought up, and Mr. Douglas’s remarks above are a good example of this, is that there are two elements to consider when considering the utility of a degree. The first, and I feel most important, is what you learn, since all education is predicated on the simple model of getting out of it what you put into it. The second, overly debated, is how good a credential the degree is.

So, so, SO often on this board I see people mixing up these two elements. Above, Bush04 is arguing for the quality of what you learn, and in his comments he is correct. Mr. Douglas is arguing for the degree as a credential, and he is ALSO correct.

RA is a better credential currently than NA.

You can learn from a good RA or NA program, if you put something in you can get something out.

I plead with you to stop with the personal attacks and focus on these points, and I think this board can serve the wonderful purpose it sets out to.

DEL

 

I understand what you are saying, but, conversely, unless you are pursuing an education specifically for personal enrichment, and never plan on entering into the field professionally or plan to teach, then it simply does not matter how or where you pursue your education. If, on the other hand, you do plan on using your education to enrich your work life in the form of responsibility and money, and the position requires a degree, BS/Masters/PhD, then your education usually must meet a required level of accreditation. This, for one in America from what I have seen requires RA, though case by case an equivalent may suffice, e.g. foriegn degrees, which may require more schooling to be accepted. Within your field, a professional accrediting body may further the utility of your degree--not the amount you have learned or the methodology you have been exposed to, but (and all the AACSB peole out there can cry foul) the utility, and in acedamia and certain business settings, AACSB in the case of business schools gives another stamp of approval, other than that, in my opinion it does not mean too much. There are good Ivy League students, and there are bad, as there are good students from small schools, and good and bad from AACSB schools. Judge the person by their merits, but most (all really) HR people do not know you, cannot know you in a twenty minute interview, so accreditation can, and does become a way for them to discriminate. This is reality. My two cents, which at present value equates to nothing, lol. Lastly, I'll hedge my education and pursue an RA MBA that is also AACSB, but that is my personal choice.

Bill

 

Dear Sir:

You do bring up another point that I have the desire to clarify. Under the degree as a credential argument, the situation most commonly cited is job interviews and human resources.

Are these the only means of career advancement? I have been at my current employer for five years, and baring mishap I intend to stay at least another five years. Continuing education in the form of degree pursuit, be it RA or NA, will help me advance in so much as new learning’s will enhance my capabilities and my employability. If we are to assume that education can translate into business success, which I do believe it can.

Please notice I just switched from arguing utility in the form of credential to arguing utility in the form of personal learning. This, I think, is why this particular debate is so interesting, and why it can be frustrating to all.

The short answer is that pursuing education is good, applying that education is even better, and having strong credentials is best.

DEL

 

Sup' Doc?

Do statements made by NCU directly (via email and/or telephone) constitute proof? If so, I have plenty of it.

 

Re: Sup' Doc?

Not really. Testimonials are a weak form of proof. Has anyone made a study of the similarities and differences between SCUPS and NCU? That would be a stronger form of evidence.

BTW, testimonials from a secondary source (you, in this case) are even weaker.

 

In my humble view,...

In order for a DETC doctorate to be of value to learners (whether as a credential or personal enrichment), it has to adopt a different paradigm from the doctoral programs that are availabe elsewhere. I believe a DETC doctorate ought to have the following elements:

1. Flexibility (i.e., completion programs, high transferability of credits levels, portfolio approach).

2. Inter-disciplinarity (i.e., hybrid learning--that is, less a "major/specialization" and more a "concentration" model).

3. Distincitive-ness: that is, a specific kind of degree programming or classification, such as the Doctorate of Arts and/or Doctorate of Professional Studies, and/or Doctorate of (specifc field of study), like Doctorate of Communications.

In my humble view, if such an approach were to be applied, there would a big "market" for this type of degree (at least among potential learners).

In terms of job marketability, ultimately, that is resolved by the "market" somehow. After all, the degree is a legally awarded and credibly accredited.

Bias and discrimination is a social matter that is or ought to be addressed in "as you go along kind of process". Anti-NA or bias towards NA should not distract from legitimacy and detract from the potential good such awards can contgribute to the world of learning.

Any DTEC people around here? What say you, forum members?

Kenneth K. A.

 

The largest CHEA recognized accreditor is the North Central Association/Higher Learning Commission with 949 schools, when I last checked.

The second largest, with 913 accredited schools, was the National Association of Cosmetology Arts and Sciences.

 

I kind of agree, though probably for different reasons than yours.

I think that DETC has things ass-backwards. They are rushing into accrediting doctoral programs without any evidence that their schools have any experience with or ability to host research scholarship.

What DETC should be doing is working to upgrade the scholarly productivity of the schools that they accredit, or at least those that have doctoral aspirations down the line.

Research units should be created within DETC schools. Faculty and graduate students should be encouraged to publish and to show their faces at conferences. DETC schools need to enter into wider collaborations and multi-institution projects.

Because, like it or not, their doctorates are going to be judged by the standards set by the doctoral programs at the major research universities. That's the game and if DETC wants credibility, they will have to start playing it as soon as possible.

DETC doctorates will be dismissed as crappy doctorates until the day arrives when a graduate clutching a DETC Ph.D. is perceived as just possibly being the best man or woman for the job.

 

Re: Re: Wanna-be elitist?

Thanks for coming to my defense Rich!

 

I grew up in Mass, and you are right, people say UMASS - Amherst, Boston, etc. Since leaving the state and living in DC, going out to Txas, etc. People who graduated simply say Univ od Mass, or UMASS, and haven't really said what campus. My point was that outside the local area, most people don't even realize that there are 5 UMASS's and don't know what "UMASS" is by word, much like people outside MD don't know what UMUC, UMBC, etc is.

Another example of this university system is Texas, which there are 13 UT's, but most recognize the flagship school, UT Austin.

 

Having spent most of my life living in Massachusetts I would agree that all the various campuses of UMass have their own separate identities and if you don't specify which campus you attended many people will ask you, "Which one?" I've imagined that this is the same for many other states such as California where they have two big university systems (U of C and CSU) not to mention the Community College system.
Jack