DETC & Accreditation of Ph.D. Programs

-------------------------------------------------------

The offerring of doctoral degrees entirely via distance learning is not something RA institutions are accustomed to. Residency of any length is an obstacle to many students, both logisically and financially.

CCU is an entirely distance education institution and thus DETC better represents the mission of CCU.

The DETC accreditation process is much quicker (and quite possibly less expensive) than the RA's. DETC as you know does not play the candidate game. The average length of time from application to full accreditation with DETC is one year.

IMHO, DETC is less political than the RA's.

Just because Calcoast has'nt applied to WASC does not discount CCU's DETC accreditation efforts.

BTW, you have previously stated on many occasions that you did not believe Calcoast would ever pursue accreditation, because if memory serves me correct, "It [accreditation] does not fit into the CCU business model." Or something to this effect.

 

Indeed, I have. And I still believe it to be true. But things change, don't they? I, for one, would see it as a very positive development. But there still seems to be no public announcement to that effect, is there?

 

It's interesting when you read through the DETC website. They appear pretty ticked at the RA establishment for the unacceptance of DETC credits by some RA schools. They go on to say that DETC is the equivalent to RA in every measurable way and that denial of those credits violates several Acts and is essentially unjust possibly illegal (paraphrased). That must be an interesting debate in some circles...

 

--------------------------

Your first comments about NCU's RA attempts were that they'd never gain accreditation. As the NCU's accreditation process developed so too did your opinion. By the end of the accreditation process you changed your position to NCU not gaining RA without adding a residency requirement. Heck you even went as far as betting me that NCA would require a residency of some sort.
Like Bear you even referenced the SCUPS relationship as a likely factor in NCA's denial of NCU.
Now please do not say that I'm attacking you. I'm not, but rather reminding you of your comments.

 

How many times do I have to acknowledge the same thing?

Remember, my being wrong about NCU doesn't make you right about CCU. Personally, I'm all in favor of it, but I'm not holding my breath. (How many times do I have to repeat THAT?)

 

-----------------------------------------

Do the following quotes remind you of your previous position on the issue of NCU gaining NCA accreditation"

There was a time in the not-to-distant-past that you didn't believe NCU had an ice-cubes-chance-in-hell of gaining RA. But here of late you act like the only obstacle you believed NCU had to overcome -- in reference to RA -- was the lack of any type of residency requirement.

"...I bet you they don't get their candidacy. Secondly, I bet if they do, they do so while dropping the doctoral programs. Two bets. The wager? The loser must cowtow to the winner explicitly in this forum (with a great deal of wit, humor, sarcasm, and just a little bit of respect!).
(Honestly, I suspect your predicted outcome is just as plausible as mine, or some other yet-unknown result. Still, I think we got 'em surrounded, pard.)
I look forward to us jawing back and forth at the outcome. I just hope the winner is NCU." Rich Douglas


"...But I still can't get past two things. Fist, SCUPS, which has done a few things that are less-than-wonderful. NCU and SCUPS are co-owned. Second, it is a huge leap from being a correspondent with a regional association and becoming a candidate for accreditation. The odds are probably against NCU for awhile...."

"To the readers of this thread: While NCU may be sincere in its desire to become regionally accredited, I wouldn't get my hopes up too high too soon. They've already had one visit that did not result in their candidacy. They have other, basic issues to work out, like their co-ownership with SCUPS, lack of residency, relatively new operation, etc. This is definitely "I'll believe it when I see it" territory. "
Rich Douglas

Just not permitting you to back track. That's all.

 

Wes:
The guy has admitted that some of his predictions about NCU were wrong. In the quoted remarks above, he even stated that he hoped "NCU is the winner". What else do you want him to do? Do you want him to disappear or what? He made an educated guess but things went the other way. We are happy that NCU emerged as the winner. We also hope that CCU will win.

 

I, for one, appreciate Rich's observations - even when I don't agree.

 

Somehow this was wildly germane:
earlier in this thread somebody used the "word" cowtow.

Kowtow (with a K) was grovelling before the emperor of China.
Cowtow (with a C) sounds akin, as W. C. Fields once put it,
to taking the bull by the tail and facing the situation.

As the Irish pub song says, "it's the one thing or the other."

Hau! Confused again!

 

Internationalism!

The one thing the RA are extremely bad at is looking at, and accrediting programmes, that truly speak to an 'international'/non'US style system and form of curriculum! By and large they are inept at doing so! DETC, on the other hand, is still very US-orientated, but, I believe, is trying to adopt a more multi-cultural educational approach to accreditation. The US accreditation system is in need of a massive overahaul and has to become more learner-centred rather than outcomes/facilities focussed. When DETC first announced its doctoral accreditation scheme I provided evidence to the DETC and demonstrated that under its proposals Oxford, Cambridge and virtually every other Uk university would 'fail' to gain DETC accreditation! It was all 'too North American'! The system is based on a view as to the age of doctoral candidacy which ha slong since changed! Taking written examinations at the doctoral level is completely unheard of in Europe. Course work is incrasing but 'comprehensive written tests' are not used and, in my judgement and that of most adult educators, are regarded as quite useless!

I look forward to DTEC being able to make a stab in the dark for trul international distance-learning accreditation for doctoral programmes because, for sure, the RAs are way behind and Australia, the UK (to some extent) and some other European institutions are waking up to the fact that they can take this market on an international basis!

'telfax' (quiet for a time in recent weeks!)

 

I'm pretty sure Professor Kennedy would disagree with you. He has presented a strong case for assessment by examination, even at the doctoral level, for DL course work.

http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=65072#post65072

 

My guess is that any DETC doctorate would have to be based on a combination of coursework and dissertation, based on the American model.

I think the DETC could simply contract out the reading of all dissertations for a period of time to determine whether schools are only accepting quality work and do a sampling thereafter. Throw a few random R/A dissertations into the mix for quality control. Make it a blind study.

Although the US accepts dissertation only doctorates from the rest of the world, resistance at home would probably be too great.

 

Not only that, but Americans expect the "taught" model, as compared to the doctorate by thesis (dissertation). It is what applicants will expect to encounter.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Hundreds of visitors read this NG weekly. Rich Douglas touts himself as a distance education expert, which I for one believe him to be. I am concerned that the new visitors (non-regulars) to this NG will believe his opinion and follow his lead. However,
Rich’s accreditation predictions have been in the recent past (two years) completely wrong, The non-regulars to this NG need to understand that Rich hasn’t been very accurate in predicting which institutions will apply for accreditation or succeed in their efforts. You see, Rich probably cost many students thousands of $$$$$ and the opportunity to gain a RA education via NCU because he advised that the risk was too great.

To the best of my knowledge Rich never enrolled at NCU and thus never really understood how strong NCU was in terms of accreditation potential. But yet based on his bias of SCUPS he strongly discouraged ANYONE from enrolling at NCU, even after candidacy was granted. During this same timeframe Rich was endorsing a Mexican degree mill which later went out-of-business. MIGS, a degree mill despite being a graduate assistant with insider opportunities duped Rich for over one year. Did Rich’s endorsement of this degree mill cost any innocent students money and lost time due to Rich’s endorsement. He almost had me convinced to enroll in MIGS, which would have cost me money and time.

Now, Calcoast is applying to DETC and Rich is still, without any definitive information, predicting failure. All along Rich has stated that Calcoast would never pursue accreditation, mainly because accreditation didn’t blend well with the mission of Calcoast, which is a business ($$$$$) model not an education model. Rich Douglas might understand the past of distance education. But I am not sure he has a good grip on the future of distance education.

 

Rich,

I wonder if you have pursue an unacredited doctorate, since at one point you posted in CPU tread that you wanted to do so, or you still at least was considering.

Just curious!


Vini

 

Why do I think I am going to be seeing fireworks?

Anyone who bases a career or life decision on one person's opinion in a public forum deserves all the grief they can get.

I think that some of Rich's opinions are silly but 95 % are on the money.

 

Where is Rich leading precisely, that you don't want to go?

I think that some words of caution were prudent, until North Central's accreditation was finally sorted out.

Frankly, the idea of Cal Coast applying to an accreditor that doesn't accredit doctoral programs surprises me. Here's CCU's current program offerings:

School of Administration and Management

B.S. - Business Administration 
B.S. - Management 
M.B.A.
M.S. - Health Care Management 
D.B.A. 
Ph.D. - Business Administration 
Ph.D. - Doctor of Management   

School of Engineering 

M.S. - Engineering Management 
Ph.D. - Engineering Management   

School of Behavioral Science
 
B.S. - Psychology 
M.S. - Psychology 
Ph.D. - Psychology 
Psy.D. - Psychology   

School of Education  

Ed.D. - Education

OK. Cal Coast offers 14 different degree programs. Seven of these are doctoral programs that presumably will have to be shut down if they apply to DETC. That includes their entire School of Education. It also terminates their function preparing candidates to take the California psychology boards.

If this news about Cal Coast and DETC actually turns out to be true, then it suggests that Cal Coast is not only applying for accreditation, but that they are dramatically overhauling the entire university, its mission and its offerings.

Would you care to comment?

 

Too North American!

We now live in global economy and educational cultural context. If the Us thinks its systems will fit all cultures and its system is 'right'- then it is wrong! Remember, so manhy US doctoral candidates end up ABD! I wonder why? They get through the course work but can't hack the real element of doing a doctprate - the slog of scholarship that produces research of publishable standards that enhances knowlegde! What is happening (in the US and now increasiongly in Europe) is a dumping down of standards - more course work and smaller research work/theses/dissertations. For every Prof Kennedy in Scotland ( I admire him for the work he has done)there are three times as many profs of education and adult learning who will competely disagree with him as to how best to assess adults, their learning and how e-learning and siatance education (these two thigns are not the same) should be assessed! Written examinations are not the be all and end all-especially at doctoral level!

'telfax'