Cummings Graduate Institute

In regard to use of title, practicing Psychologists, Physicians and Nurses require that they be licensed by every state board of profession.

There are exceptions as follows. For instance, if a doctoral level Psychologist is teaching but not practicing, licensure is not required. Generally, an Industrial/Organizational Psychologist does not need a license in most states. In regard to Physicians, if one is a foreign Physician, if they haven't taken the FLEX exam that demonstrates that their medical education is equivalent to US standards, they MAY be able to practice under the supervision of a licensed Physician.

 

In regard to use of title, practicing Psychologists, Physicians and Nurses require that they be licensed by every state board of profession.

There are exceptions as follows. For instance, if a doctoral level Psychologist is teaching but not practicing, licensure is not required. Generally, an Industrial/Organizational Psychologist does not need a license in most states. In regard to Physicians, if one is a foreign Physician, if they haven't taken the FLEX exam that demonstrates that their medical education is equivalent to US standards, they MAY be able to practice under the supervision of a licensed Physician.

 

In regard to the use of the title/term Nurse, state boards of profession require that they be licensed because the title is protected by state laws and statutes pertaining to that profession. In short, if one states that they are a Nurse, they are conveying to the public the perception that they are licensed, and by not doing so is a violation of misrepresentation to the public by state boards of discipline.

 

Show me

 

If a Medical Doctor visits the US from France (or any other country) where they are a practicing, licensed Physician, there is not a person in the world (maybe other than Jan) who would object to their referring to themselves as a Doctor/MD. They are not licensed anywhere in the US and yet they are clearly a Doctor. Their "doctorness" is not diminished by the fact that they are unlicensed.

 

Please note that if there are any doubts regarding my statements, posters can check every state board of profession that will confirm my statements.

If I'm incorrect, I will be the first to admit it. However, so far no poster has provided any credible evidence that contradicts my statements.

 

Please note that this is not a "pissing" contest (as Levicoff terms it) but hopefully a discussion!

In regard, to your example of a foreign doctor who visits the US, of course they are legitimate Physicians in their country and can be referred to as a Physician in our country. However, they cannot practice in the US or promote themselves as practicing Physicians in this country.

However, these exceptions do not negate the general legal requirements for the usage of protected titles/terms Nurse. Psychologist. Physician, etc., in the US, as I related in previous posts.

 

You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

As for our foreign MD, you're contradicting yourself. First you say they can refer to themselves as Physicians and then you say they can't refer to themselves as Physicians. We're not talking about practicing medicine. We're talking about identifying oneself using a specific term. Stop moving the goalposts.

If an MD retires and allows their license to lapse they can still refer to themselves as a Doctor. That's the issue, using the term as an identifier, not practicing medicine.

 

Kizmet,: ]You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

JAN: Quite frankly, you're making claims based on hearsay from a friend and quoting a dictionary definition of a Nurse which does not exactly constitute fact. So the burden of proof, as you call it, is on you to refute my assertions with substantive facts.

Kismet: As for our foreign MD, you're contradicting yourself. First you say they can refer to themselves as Physicians and then you say they can't refer to themselves as Physicians. We're not talking about practicing medicine. We're talking about identifying oneself using a specific term.

Kismet: Stop moving the goalposts.

Jan: As a professional practitioner this is not s matter of "moving the goalposts" but of ensuring that posters do not accept a dictionary definition of a Nurse, or any other legally protected clinical title, to mean that one can use legally protected professional titles as practitioners, without being licensed. Nothing more, nothing less.

JAN: Yes, the example of a foreign physician (as well as the other examples I provided) enable such professionals to refer to themselves as a Physician in the US ONLY if they provide clear indication that they are unlicensed and cannot provide medical care as a Physician! So in fact, whether they can refer to themselves as a Physician is irrelevant because they are unable to use their title to practice in the US. And this is the essential point.

KISMET: If an MD retires and allows their license to lapse they can still refer to themselves as a Doctor. That's the issue, using the term as an identifier, not practicing medicine.

JAN: Yes, as long as they do so with the clear disclaimer that they are no longer licensed and cannot practice medicine. Using the title, not the "term", appropriately is the key issue as an identifier, and that is the essential and meaningful message that needs to be conveyed

 

No it's not. The essential point is "Can someone call themselves a Clinician (or Nurse, or MD, etc.) if they are not licensed?" The answer is yes, they can.
You can try to turn the question into something else in order to try to salvage you're position but in regards to the original question I am correct and you are not.

 

I disagree. You're approaching the definition of "Clinician" from a layman's perspective while I am from a professional's understanding of what qualifications constitute referring to oneself as a Clinician . Quotes from a dictionary to support your contention of the definition of a Nurse does not make you correct, and in fact the majority of dictionary definitions provided by Maxwell_Smart, of which they were many, support my perspective regarding the definition of Clinician, citing examples of Nurses, Doctors and Psychologists as highly trained and licensed!

So, if you wish to accept your definition of a Clinician that is your right to do so, but I and my colleagues hold that title to a higher standard.

 

Interesting dialogue! For the most part, many States, perhaps not all, classify a clinician as a healthcare provider that treats patients, so for the lion share of laws on the books, yes it requires a license! However, Since the passing of the Affordable Care Act, many additional allied health care classifications have been added to the National Provider Enumerator taxonomy codes. With that said, let’s not confuse clinician with technician which may or may not require a license.

In addition, physicians, nurses and psychologists, may have other areas of employment that don’t require an active license. For example, an academic physician, may not require a license because the setting does not require it by law. Ie: Teaching surgical procedures in an animal lab. Nevertheless, they are still respected as “physicians” or “doctors” in that setting. Another setting that may or may not require a license is research, depending on the type of research.

Another area relates to administrative duties. I knew a CEO of a hospital who was Jane Doe, PhD, FNP. Whether or not she had a retired status, volunteer status, inactive status or active status as a nurse, it was irrelevant. The degree awarded was Master of Science Family Nurse Practitioner (FNP).

In conclusion, laws certainly vary from state to state and there is no generalization of the matter but for the most part, if one is involved in direct patient care, they require a license.

 

Copper, excellent post.

As mentioned in my previous posts, there are exceptions to the rule, which you clearly elaborate upon. This level of clarification is important because the average patient/client can have difficulty understanding which credentials enable one to use the title Clinician when in fact they are not qualified to provide clinical services.

 

Link to taxonomy:

http://www.wpc-edi.com/reference/codelists/healthcare/health-care-provider-taxonomy-code-set/

Another point worth mentioning is not to confuse the term certification with license. Technicians may practice without a license but may need certification as well as supervision under the clinician, agency or facility. Clinicians typically need a license to legally practice (patients) but may also need certification in addition to the license as a requirement for hospital privileges, insurance recognition, etc.

I recommend reading definitions under the taxonomy link for the provider ID in question. For example, a dental assistant doesn’t need a license but the clinician dental hygienist does!

 

Yes, certification is not equivalent to licensure and certain licensed Clinicians may need specific certifications to provide their clinical services within the context in which they work.

 

Here’s an exception, the Lay Midwife is licensed in some States but not required in others, hence a clinician without a license or certification in “some states” according to the NPI. Like I said, since the ACA, quite a few changes! Anyway, have fun!

 

In regards to the DBH offered by Cummings, I noticed ASU offers an online DBH with two tracks. The clinical track or the managerial track. Certainly a little more utility if the graduate is unable to get a license. I really can’t comment on the scope of a DBH. Can they diagnose and treat mental health disorders? Provide psychotherapy?


Here is what the NPI says: “Behavior Analyst
A behavior analyst is qualified by at least a master's degree and Behavior Analyst Certification Board certification and/or a state-issued credential (such as a license) to practice behavior analysis independently. Behavior analysts provide the required supervision to assistant behavior analysts and behavior technicians. A behavior analyst delivers services consistent with the dimensions of applied behavior analysis. Common services may include, but are not limited to, conducting behavioral assessments, analyzing data, writing and revising behavior-analytic treatment plans, training others to implement components of treatment plans, and overseeing implementation of treatment plans. “

Kind of a generalized broad yet vague range of scope. Perhaps State boards will be more specific.