Computer Science or Computer Info Systems

I am wondering what's the deal with these two degrees. I've notice that in most job listings when they require a degree they'll indicate Computer Science. Now I know that an individual who has a CS degree in most cases is in Software Engineering and Programming. But when I see a CS degree requirement for a Networking position, I don't get it. Computer Infomation Systems would be more exceptable although most schools require a ton of business classes. So I'm just wondering if I should complete my degree in CS or CIS? I hate math with a passion so I leaning towards CIS but for the job market, with is better? I was looking at Excelisor's CIS degree and it seems to push heavily towards an actually CS degree. Any thoughts and/or suggestions?

Natdog73

P.S. I do hold certifications but I also want to run a IS department for a large corporation someday. That's my long term goal and I don't think certs and/or experience alone will get me up there.

 

In my opinion, you should complete a degree in Management Information Systems. These are a number of these programs available via distance learning. For example:

Excelsior College
B.S. - MIS http://www.excelsior.edu/bus_bd.htm

Bellevue University
B.S. - MIS http://www.bellevue.edu/Programs/Degrees/mis.html
B.S. - E-Business http://www.bellevue.edu/Programs/Degrees/ebiz.html
B.S. - Business Information Systems http://www.bellevue.edu/Programs/Degrees/bis.html

An MIS (or MIS-related) degree will allow you to focus on the business-related applications of computer tech, rather than dwelling on theory and math. MIS sounds like an ideal choice for someone in your situation. Good luck.

Michael Barger
[email protected]

 

Thanks for the input. Computer Science is out for me but am interested in taking some programming courses. Now I going as a silly question. What's the difference between Computer Info, Business Info, and Management Info Systems?

Natdog73

 

Search the Usenet archives over at Google (http://groups.google.com/). This topic was addressed very well in several old alt.education.distance threads.

In my opinion, there is no significant difference between MIS, CIS, or IT. I think they're all fundamentally the same thing.

Michael Barger
[email protected]

 

IIRC, Larry McQueary, co-author of Bears' Guide to the Best Computer Degrees by Distance Learning, was a major contributor to those threads. Including his name in your search parameters may help pull up the discussions.

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Bill Gossett

 

Nat, my impression has been that CS is heavier in math, while CIS is a bit more 'practical'.

I'm enrolled in the Excelsior CIS program but have been considering (of late) moving that to an MIS type of degree (business has always held a secondary interest for me). In any case, the Excelsior CIS does not appear to be too demanding.

Another thought I've entertained recently is an MBA on top of the BSCIS... should be relatively doable via mostly or exclusively DL.

 

A CS degree is just as "practical" as a CIS degree, but the focus is definitely different.

A CS degree is largely a "pure programming" degree. Expect lots of programming classes including such advanced topics as operating system design, compiler design, and database management system design (not database design, but the actual programming of the database management system). You can also expect this to be a little heavier on the math (some calculus usually required as well as discrete math). This degree is geared almost exclusively to software.

A CIS/MIS/IT degree is geared more towards computer *systems* including hardware, networks and databases. They generally require overview classes in each of these areas as well as introductory programming classes and information systems management classes (for information systems planning). Invariably these require less math and less programming coursework than a CS degree.

What you can normally expect to see is programming jobs requiring BSCS degrees while non-programming IT jobs requiring a "computer" degree. In all cases, the stated job "requirement" is often flexible, which I expect is the case in the CS degree for a network admin job instance. Probablky a CIS degree would be acceptable.

Let me offer one anecdotal reason why a CIS degree might *not* be acceptable for a network admin job. One of the primary problems with a CIS degree is that these programs are sometimes complete jokes. Here's the required curriculum for a regionally accredited BSIS degree from MidAmerica Nazarene:
http://www.mnu.edu/iae/is/profile.html

So for a BS degree in a technical subject, you need to have a grand total of 26 computer-related credits, of which only 20 are truly technical in nature (the Systems Management and Management Information Systems classes are probably non-technical). Now based on that curriculum, is a graduate of this program qualified to be a network administrator? A CS degree graduate might not be any more qualified to be a network administrator than a graduate from this program, but I would have significantly more confidence in that graduate's ability to master technical subject matter.

In the case of CS programs there is an established accreditation board ( http://www.csab.org ) that ensures a certain minimal quality for CS programs. No such consistency exists for CIS programs.

 

Hello, on the topic, i'm looking at getting an online CS degree and wonder what the best program is? I have a few that i'm looking at now including www.cs.depaul.edu, www.baker.edu, http://vc.convene.com/lakeland/ lakeland university as well as www.njit.edu and finally www.umuc.com univ of maryland?

I already took all my Calculus classes derivatives,integration and vectors so i'm all set in that area But i took those 4 years ago before i dropped out of a traditional U do to financial problems! This brings up another question,are they still good?



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"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce
the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know
this is not true." - Professor Silensky @UCLA

 

Moenkopi,

The ancient, forgotten math is probably fine as long as you're truly done and don't have to take additional calculus based math. The reality is, none of the remainder of the computer science curriculum will really depend on your knowledge of vector calculus.

As far as the degree programs you mention go, I'm not particularly familiar with the quality of any of them. One thing to look for though is what the degree will actually be. A Bachelor of Science in Computer Science will be somewhat more marketable than a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science.

Basically for a programmer seeking a job, a BSCS is the gold standard. A BACS or BSCIS degree would be of less value, though the reality is, once you have a couple years of experience under your belt, the specific letters of the degree become less and less important (though merely having a degree - better yet a technical degree of any sort - can remain very important).

Disclaimer: Despite my lack of love for the CIS/MIS/IT type degrees, I am currently pursuing a BSCIS degree at Excelsior and am a working software engineer. My point being, I do see the value in aiming for something less than the gold standard in many cases.

 

Thanks for replying! Umm, i'd definately go for a bscs unless if they wouldn't accept my old credits for classes i've already taken. I have my mind/heart set on a bscs because where i'd like to go in this area... I want to bring alot of immagination in any future endeavers that i seek. For instance, after getting enough experience maybe i'd like to manage projects and teams.. That would come later w/ management classes but the only thing that i want is a BSCS because, i never finished my advanced degree in biochem and i feel immense regret for never finishing even though now, i have absolutely no interest in biology. Thanks




------------------
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce
the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know
this is not true." - Professor Silensky @UCLA

 

Nat,
FWIW I started on the online BS in CIS at UMUC and I was very disappointed in the program. For a host of reasons I transferred to the online BS in IS program at UMass Lowell which has been a terrific experience. I would encourage you to take at look at the CyberEd program which you can find at www.uml.edu and drill down to Continuing Ed.

 

A comment on the content of the Excelsior BSCIS degree is probably in order.

First, you can make this an "easy" degree since you can take the coursework almost anywhere. Find an easy local junior college, take your course in operating systems which isn't likely to be very challenging since it's a junior college after all, and presto, operating systems requirement is done.

The ICCP exams which they use to quiz out of the requirements are not easy at all, but if you know your stuff, they can be a way to a fast degree. Until my job picked up again I was knocking out a 3 credit test every 10 days. But I do have 6 years industry experience as a network administrator, a database administrator, as a systems consultant, and now as a software engineer. I've seen almost every aspect of the industry so the tests weren't insurmountable, but they were difficult. To get a degree purely through tests, you have to have a very broad knowledge of computer systems.

As far as the degree slanting towards a CS, this isn't really true. Of the 7 core requirements, only the high-level programming language requirement would normally be a requirement in a normal BSCS program. Sure, you'd have an "operating systems" requirement in a BSCS program, but that would be how to program an operating system, where a non-programming comparitive operating systems class will satisfy the Excelsior requirement.

However, you can make Excelsior's BSCIS program more like a traditional BSCS program if you choose to which is why I gravitated towards it in the first place. If you plan on going to graduate school in CS (where there are many more affordable DL choices), you can take a data structures class and a discrete math class and a algorithms class and a... you get the idea. Outside of the core 7 requirements, you have almost complete control on how to fill the other technical requirements.

 

Well, thanks for the assistance everyone, i think i'll go to a local university like the one i dropped out of or embry riddle in CS thanks again..



------------------
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce
the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know
this is not true." - Professor Silensky @UCLA

 

I did a Google search for online Computer Science degree options, and found that SUNY (State University of New York) is in the final stages of approving a curriculum for Computer Science through their Fredonia Campus (US News 2nd Tier school). You can check it out at: http://sln.suny.edu/admin/sln/original.nsf/504ca249c786e20f85256284006da7ab/bdfaee3e96b7b4d28525675f0057a75d?OpenDocument

I emailed the director of Distance Learning for the SUNY system, and he stated that the program would be finalized very soon.