Colorado State University

Qoute from Scott Henley
"Harvard, Colorado, Oxford, London, and NYU would never dare associate their programs with the likes of Thomas Edison, Charter Oak (what a poor choice for a name), and Excelsior (even worse)... "

Your post is pretty cryptic. Yes Harvard, Colorado, NYU etc DO associate themselves with Excelsior, TESC and COSC. They have accepted graduates from these schools into their graduate programs. As for Oxford and UofL I have no idea. What is the problem with the idea of challenging coarses? Most of the Universities I am familiar with do allow coarses to be challenged and most do allow advance placement credits. If a person truly has the knowledge they deserve the credit.

The fallacy we seem to be repeating over and over again is comparing the best b and m schools to good but average dl schools. Of coarse UC Berkeley, MIT, Harvard are better schools than TESC and Excelsior. Not every has the time, money or oppurtunity to attend these top schools. In this case I think the big 3 are a great choice.

 

The main difference between the "Big 3" is that when you are working on an associate or bachelor degree you do not have to take any coursework from these schools. All of the other schools mentioned will typically require 24 sem. hrs. of coursework from them before you receive their degree. Hence, Excelsior, TESC, or COSC will allow a student to find courses and exams that are within their budget or favorite delivery method. One could be really focused and do the 4 Week approach or bring in the learning they have acquired around the country or the world.

John

 

Gawd, so much ignorance... so little time but I will do my best, hang on

Please note a few truths:
1) Method of assessment is irrelevant with respect to academic rigor
2) Anecdotal acceptance within the context of a personal application means very little... too many factors to attribute acceptance or rejection to respect for degree.
3) There are various levels of utility. Degree mills have utility, RA degree mills have utility and legitimate degrees have utility but to suggest they are equal is absurd... I assume this is the truth Scott was referring to.

Engaged Org... good post.

Tom:
First, you may be surprised to find out that you would not be able to pass. The standards are brutal and although you may be widely read, you may not have studied the specific authors / perspectives examined on the papers.
Second, if you could pass (which may be possible)... from some of your posts I doubt you honestly qualify as the "average mature adult" who evidently can earn a RA BA... you strike me more as the time who would read a college textbook before going to bed.

Finally, the opportunities are not limited to only Harvard, MIT and your "big 3".
People don't pick the "big 3" because they cannot get into Harvard... there are a plethora of opportunities in the US and abroad which, althought not Harvard, provide a legitimate academic credential.

whew.

 

I earned my MBA from Colorado State's distance learning program in 1995. It was a terrific experience and a first class education.

Tony

 

And you know this because.......? I would wager that Tom has more thoroughly investigated the UoL B.D. program than you have.

If they would allow him to take the exams, my money is on Tom.


Bruce

 

From http://www.ox.ac.uk/aboutoxford/history.shtml -

As the oldest English-speaking university in the world, it lays claim to eight centuries of continuous existence. There is no clear date of foundation, but teaching existed at Oxford in some form in 1096 and developed rapidly from 1167, when Henry II banned English students from attending the University of Paris.

Also, you may note Oxford has a DL programme:

http://www.online.ox.ac.uk/

Even those with history behind them are getting with the times.

Christian

 

I am with you Bruce. My money is on Tom.

North

 

With absolutely no offense to Mr. Head... this demonstrates your ignorance of British education.

 

With absolutely no offense to Mr. Ken....this demonstrates your ignorance of Mr. Head.

North

 

Yes, pretty soon, there will be a BA in a fortnight in the UK; it is very troubling:
http://education.leeds.ac.uk/~edu/wblp/a10.htm
http://www.abcol.ac.uk/esu/courses.html
http://cll.ncl.ac.uk/courses/vll/apl/accred.htm
http://www.strath.ac.uk/Other/adultguidance/ag.htm (must click "Course Info", then use pick list for APL)
http://www.surrey.ac.uk/Education/cce/geninfo1.htm
http://textweb.livjm.ac.uk/learning/lawp/
http://www.uel.ac.uk/eds/apel/eds_apel13.htm

I couldn't find anything quite so blatent as the above at Oxford, but there was this for "mature" students:
http://www.admissions.ox.ac.uk/mature/enc.shtml
Qualifications
Mature Students come to Oxford having undertaken a wide variety of courses ranging from Access courses to Foundation courses, Open University Diplomas or two or three A-levels. Although there are no specific qualifications required for entry to Oxford, we would advise mature students to follow a course of study that would interest and stretch them academically as well as providing the necessary background to degree study. Tutors will take into account knowledge and experience gained through work.
If you are unsure about which qualifications to take or whether your qualifications are suitable to make an application you should contact a Tutor for Admissions at a college or the OCAO for advice.

This sort of unsavory stuff is going on in Canada, too. More so.

 

Note that Harvard also has no specific qualifications required for entry. I even know of a high school dropout that attended Harvard.

Christian

 

Yes, there is some of that, too, but I was referring mostly to the APL or APEL (assessment of prior learning) that is running rampant in the UK by the Big Seven universities, as evidenced by the links.

 

I think it is difficult to argue that prior learning should not be granted some credit... the issues are:

1) Should someone be able to "earn" a current degree based completely upon "prior" learning.

2) Is the learning academic in nature.

3) Is the assessment academic in nature and of an academic rigor equivalent to generally accepted standards.


Incidently, this is hardly innovative. Universities have allowed challenge exams for some time. However when the exams are of accepted academic rigor it is extraordinarily rare that a student would be able to challenge out of more than a few courses successfully.

 

Yes, I am quite ignorant of Mr. Head... however, this is not a discussion board of Tom Head (we could create one if this is of interest).

However, as I indicated, if Mr. Head is the doogie howser you infer, I would not classify him as a "average mature individual"... this is not a 4wk BA.

Finally, I would still suggest that it would be very difficult for Mr. Head to pass all the exams without any preparation with respect to the scope, depth and perspectives being tested. If a particular exam offered no choice of questions and asked for an in-depth essay on a perspective of which Mr. Head is not current, that could be enough to kill the exam. Again, it requires an understanding of rigorous examination assessment.

 

Harvard also accepts.....gasp......CLEP exams for credit. Using Ken's logic, they're obviously a joke.


Bruce

 

Originally posted by Ken
>I think it is difficult to argue that prior learning should not be granted some credit... the issues are:

>1) Should someone be able to "earn" a current degree based completely upon "prior" learning.

Of course. ALL degrees programs are done this way. What degree programs are based on future work? All are based on prior knowledge! Do you defend your Ph.D. thesis before you do the research it and write it? No, you wait until all the work is done (thus it is prior work), and then you are assessed on it.

Do you take the final exam on the first day of a taught course? No, you study, and at the designated time, you take the test. In a taught course, there is a timeline...the instructors have to move on to new students every term. In many independent study courses, like the H-W MBA, there is no timeline. The exam is sitting there waiting on you patiently and you can write it whenever you wish: today, tomorrow or in two years, presumably when you think you know the material...even five years after you know it. H-W does not ask you how long you've known the material, do they?

HW is only involved with the DL student for only about nine days (not counting the few hours it takes to mail the syllabus); these are all test days, and so they have to be called a "100% prior learning institution" for their DL programs. Even those nine days are handled by surrogates, their proctors in other countries. So in reality, they have a 1-day program, involving the shipping of study materials and the diploma.

>2) Is the learning academic in nature.

Yep. Math, literature, history, financial management,...stuff like that.

>3) Is the assessment academic in nature and of an academic rigor equivalent to generally accepted standards.

Generally. UoL has their on exams. H-W has their own exams. Certain unmentionable schools use standardized exams.

Standardized exams are used for entry into a program, advanced placement into a program (like the UK APL and the US AP tests). As Bruce said, even Harvard does it. Certain unmentionable schools use only standardized exams. These aren't exams that the students supply to the universities, by the way.

>Incidently, this is hardly innovative. Universities have allowed challenge exams for some time. However when the exams are of accepted academic rigor it is extraordinarily rare that a student would be able to challenge out of more than a few courses successfully.

Not without studying for it. But once you've finished studying, you can take an exam to prove it, sometime in the future as you see fit...kind of like H-W.