CEU Masters in Ed degree

Discussion in 'The Monterrey Institute for Graduate Studies' started by Julie, Apr 9, 2002.

  1. Peter French

    Peter French member

    Re: Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    THIS is why a growing group of people are requesting an alternative medium. This is going ahead, and in the light of the disgraceful treatment of 2 people on this thread, the sooner the better.

    And with the utmost respect, certain posters here should review their code of conduct, and levels of politness and decorum - try your present level on your loved ones and see how far you get!

    On the other hand, maybe we should set up a 'swill trough' site?:rolleyes:
  2. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    As I was the one who introduced the word shill into the thread, I feel compelled to reply. I, for one, have not questioned Leslie’s (she’ll always be Sunnie to me) integrity or motivation. I do not, however, believe that same assessment can simply, by extension (as you put it), apply to Julie. Leslie, of course, should be allowed vouch for Julie, but up to now all she has stated is that, “Julie was referred here by me from an online teachers' community for some ‘expert’ advice on her situation.” That’s not much of an endorsement. Leslie, could (dare I say should), for example, tell us the name of the other forum Julie has posted these queries about MIGS, so that others may read them and judge for themselves.

    Once again, for any moderation to be useful, for it to truly prevent the same behavior from occurring, more specificity is required than simply “some responses were over the top.” Yes, it’s true that some people are occasionally poked fun at, but it is also true that some people provide ample grounds to be mocked. If these individuals continue to exhibit the same behavior elsewhere, sooner or later, they will, inevitably, be ridiculed; perhaps it is better that it occur here (where the overwhelming majority of members of this community are extremely forgiving and have a genuine desire to help—yes, even Steve, Rich and Gus ;) ) than in some professional venue where the consequences would be much greater.

    And I agree that we have quite a few newbies that know little about distance learning, degree mills and accreditation (or where to find the information), however, someone like Julie, who professes to be pursuing a Masters degree in Education through MIGS via distance learning does not fit the profile. I, for one, have no doubt, that if Julie had posed sincere questions (as opposed to implying that because she couldn’t find any corroborating links, the veracity of what had been posted on this forum was in question), and perhaps offered to share some of her inside knowledge and experiences of MIGS, the replies would have had a vastly different tone.

    So if Julie is for real, she should come back to this forum (we haven’t heard from her since we, graciously or not, answered her questions—not even to complain about the way she was treated), share her experiences concerning MIGS, and consider suing them, not only for return of her tuition, but also for the loss of time, as well as, the mental pain and anguish. I’m sure she’ll find that there are quite a few individuals on this forum willing to help (not to mention having the satisfaction of proving those who questioned her sincerity wrong).
  3. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    Interesting observations, Peter, albeit as broad and vague as all the other criticisms.

    This, for the record, must be stated: Peter is a shill for a competing (as yet to be inaugurated forum). :D

    And, for an example of what Peter considers correct behavior and his thoughts on moderation, read the posts on this thread. Enjoy.
  4. Leslie

    Leslie New Member

    Gus, after rereading several times and trying to look at it from different perspectives, I can see how Julie's post was misinterpreted and erroneous conclusions were drawn. However, I do not believe she was demanding "proof" as much as she was just extremely frustrated that she could not find the information herself.

    As a side note -- you would be surprised how many teachers have no experience using technology. There are numerous schools in which there is not a classroom computer -- and even more that have only one computer per classroom. It is entirely possible for someone to locate a distance learning degree and complete it without knowing all that much about technology or researching or computers. I work with teachers online who do not know the first thing about research on the internet -- that's why there are so many online ed tech prof dev courses for teachers -- they need to catch up with technology in order to be able to use it in the classroom and personally.

    The courses I am teaching currently are all in the areas of learning how to use the Internet, how to use technology in the one-computer classroom, how to design interactive learning activities, etc. Teachers are taking these course because they do not know how to do this stuff. In my very first online grad course (before CSUH) there were 4 teachers (out of 10 total) who had no clue how to post to a discussion forum or how to locate information using a search engine. The course was "Integrating Technology in Teaching."

    Using the Internet to conduct research and take classes is old hat to folks like us - but for some it is very confusing and frustrating. And those people, unfortunately, are the ones who get taken in by degree mills.

    Anyway -- you asked for the online teacher community discussion forum with links to the discussions with the first teacher and wtih Julie. I am posting them here in order of occurance. Keep in mind that the discussion forum at Teachers.net does not archive posts and the very first post is at the bottom of the board and will most likely be gone by tomorrow. The others will be around for a few more days.

    Initial inquiry from first teacher:

    Second inquiry -- from Julie

    Third Inquiry -- from Julie

    I think that the first teacher is a sometime-regular visitor and that Julie is a first-timer who came to the forum at Teachers.net on the advice of her friend (the first teacher).

    Perhaps the discussions linked here might help clarify the situation though I'm not at all sure but what I've just muddied the waters even more :)

    aka Sunnie
  5. Peter French

    Peter French member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    I didn't realise that your memory was so bad Gus :D

    ...and then maybe it is your turn this time;)
  6. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    Not really, Peter; it’s just that although I’m not a subscriber to the philosophy that the end justifies the means, I'm certainly a firm believer in the fact that your past can come back to haunt you. ;)

    As the saying goes, no wuckin’ furries, mate. :D
  7. Peter French

    Peter French member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    Now, I know that you have cleaned your teeth, but did you go to the toilet?:confused:
  8. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Thanks for the reply, Leslie. Unfortunately, at this point, given the information you supplied, I cannot agree with you conclusively that Julie was misinterpreted or that erroneous conclusions were drawn.

    I must alo disagree with your assessment that Julie is responsible for two of the quotes you attribute to her. It appears that Julie (if we can assume its Julie, as she used the pseudonym “Help”) only posted once (the third inquiry) on the teachers.net chatboard; the other two posts make references to either considering attending MIGS, or a friend is attending MIGS. (Interestingly, all three posts use different pseudonyms).

    Moreover, in her post, Julie (actually “Help”—can we really be certain they’re the same individual?) states that she had already read the posts on DegreeInfo. So, in truth, any feelings of responsibility for having referred Julie to this forum are unfounded, as you did not directly do so. Furthermore, as you had already answered her questions on the teachers.net chatboard (I’m flattered that you even quoted one of my posts, albeit without attribution), her repeating the same questions here, were, at best, an attempt to corroborate the answers you had already given her.

    It is interesting that prior to Julie’s post, you had already provided links to such sites as Oregon’s ODA. And since in Julie’s first post she admitted to having read those messages, her claim here that she didn’t find any links is suspect, especially in light of the fact, that in your response to her (and still prior to her posting here), you provided a detailed explanation on how to access all of the discussions on a DegreeInfo forum from the beginning.

    It is also interesting to note that Julie, in her post on teachers.net spent an equal amount complaining about MIGS as touting their virtues, “ I liked the idea they would credit me for my prior work experience and that the cost was low...a lot lower than many other distance learning options I looked at (I'm on a pretty tight budget).”

    I, for one, would be extremely reticent to vouch for anyone on the basis of a single anonymous post on the Internet. Therefore, until more information concerning Julie’s identity, integrity and motivation becomes available, I will continue to regard her one anonymous post here with suspicion.

    Concerning your side note, I am not surprised at all, as I frequently donate my time and computer expertise (not to mention actual hardware) to our local school system. A few years ago, when my son was in the 4th and 5th grades, he built himself quite a reputation as the resident computer geek (kind of like “Nick—Your Company’s Computer Guy” on Saturday Night Live). So much so, that not a week went by that a teacher would request that he be excused from his regular class, so that he could go to another classroom to solve a PC or Internet access problem.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2002
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I have absolutely no desire to either keep track or track down people's aliases and identities. The legwork Gus did shows the real need for the elimination of anonymous posting on a moderated board.

    Since Kristen left about.com's DL board, it has been trashed by a couple of anonymous posters, one of which is a very unskilled (but persisitent) shill for Century University. A moderator would've cut off his account by now, at least forcing him to find another alias and another means of logging in.

    The same needs to be done here. Identify yourself adequately to the moderators, who can then assign you a login for the board. No "tags" or "handles," just real names.

    It would also help if the participants of this board also pitched in by not feeding trolls. (I count myself as one of the guilty, of course!) It is extremely aggravating, and detracts from the real issues to be discussed.

    Get it done, Chip.:mad:
  10. Leslie

    Leslie New Member

    Gus -- you are correct and I was mistaken about Julie posting twice. I see your points and agree with most if not all. The Teachers.net online community is so popular and widespread that it is not unusual to find more than one teacher in a school posting and almost a certainty others in one's school division. Many teachers post anonymously (at least sometimes) and frankly, were I in the same boat as Julie -- I would not want anyone in my school division to know the situation until it had been resolved. There are very few DL inquiries and when there are I am usually the only one who responds. So I tend to believe it is teachers who are requesting info.

    Rich -- I agree on the anonymity issue although I also have seen in other circumstances how that is not a total solution. But it does help :)

    Thank you, Gentlemen, for your continued discussion. If I ever hear anymore (which I doubt), I'll let you know. For now though, I guess this particular saga is finished.

    [aka Sunnie]
  11. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Since this thread is as much about posting etiquette and problems as about MIGS, I'm putting this here. I was intrigued to note the following on the website of San Francisco Regional Mensa's discussion area. Do you think DegreeInfo.com might benefit from a 'wilderness' area?

    SFRM-Discussion is the Discussion channel. This is the only proper channel within the SFRM Telegraph service for any discussion on any topic, except as noted below.
    SFRM-Wilderness is the Wilderness channel. Whenever it might be necessary to block any subscriber from posting to any other channels, they will still be able to post to the SFRM-Wilderness channel. This channel allows those few members who might be ill behaved to continue participating in discussion while allowing others the option of declining to receive their postings. All other subscribers are, of course, free to post to the Wilderness channel, as well.
  12. Peter E. Tucker

    Peter E. Tucker New Member

    Finished? C'mon, the protagonists here are surely just warming up. This thread is the most fun the lurkers have had for ages. Don’t tell me the fisticuffs have finished.

    There appears to be two possible scenarios for this thread:

    1. the thread originator was making a genuine enquiry with the result that certain regulars to this board have been shown to be supercilious, ignorant, sanctimonious, pompous, and not to mention down-right rude buffoons; or

    2. the thread originator was trolling for a reaction with the result that certain regulars to this board have been shown to be supercilious, ignorant, sanctimonious, pompous, and not to mention down-right rude buffoons.

    Either way the cap fits very nicely.

    Kind regards
  13. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    And now, with the arrival of an agent provocateur, a new scenario has presented itself: a poster who continues the blanket, ambiguous, accusations but escalates the rhetoric from criticizing the behavior to labeling and insulting the alleged transgressors (although he does not have the gumption to name them).
  14. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    I am stunned, shocked and amazed (in addition to being thoroughly flabbergasted). Our esteemed Dr. Bear is consorting with Mensans? :eek: :eek: :eek:

    I was going to comment on the SFRM Wilderness channel, but I am currently speechless. :D
  15. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    A final Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!

    I join Leslie in thanking you all for a most delightful thread. (At least until P.F. showed up. :p)

    I find the notion of a Wilderness forum intriguing, but must speaking out against it. You see, I am one of those who presumes to be qualified as a "supercilious, ignorant, sanctimonious, pompous, and not to mention down-right rude buffoon." But I have the credentials, experience, and style to pull that off without ever committing the legal tort of libel. (Don't argue, you know it's true. :D)

    (If you want to know what crosses the line in terms of legal liability, simply read the current threads on the old AED newsgroup.)

    The fact is that the art of flaming someone is based on an ability to skewer the person with a sharpened saber without causing peripheral damage. And, quite frankly, most of you will never be as good at it as I am. Most of you will so gleefully think you know how to thrust and parry that you will actually end up placing this board in legal jepardy.

    I will be bowing out once again, perhaps showing up at some point in the future - maybe as a nice guy, maybe as a prick. Probably with about as little toleration as I currently have for people dumb enough to be suckered, or shrewd enough to play the innocent when they make a so-called innocuous inquiry about a degree mill.

    But this forum has taken a position to be above the fray of the nonsense that occurs at AED, and I cannot think of a way to destroy the board's constructive repuation more quickly than to establish a forum in which behavior like that which I have exhibited in this thread becomes acceptable. Ladies and gentlemen, it should never be acceptable.

    See you all at teachers.net.*

    * Not really, Leslie. Can't be bothered. But couldn't resist. :D
  16. Leslie

    Leslie New Member

    Re: A final Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!

    That's ok -- your comments are actually quite mild compared to what we've seen there on occasion. The difference is intangible and difficult to explain. I think that, as you say, you have ..... how did you put it..... oh yes...... credentials, experience and style ;) while some there are quite simply aggressive and malicious in their attacks. It is difficult to explain, but reading between the lines speaks volumes to intent. Some "read" better than others and newbies just have no clue.

    Actually, I would enjoy watching some of those obnoxious posters being put in their place -- pity you don't have time. Guess I'll just have to take a few lessons and do it myself! :D

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