Certified MBA???

Wow, this is an active group. We understand that participation in the CMBA exam and membership in the Association of Certified MBAs is a choice, and may not be for everyone. Benefits do however accrue to those who choose to prepare for and pass the exam.

Remember, there are over 114,000 MBA graduates each year from over 900 degree granting institutions in the US alone. I am sure you received a great education at Nova, equal to that received from schools with more prestige. How do you and your colleagues get employer's attention? Some of your competitors in the job market are looking for ways to get more attention. Employers are looking for ways differentiate and sort thousands of applicants. Currently they sort students by the schools they recruit from. They miss meeting many great candidates from other schools using this method. This is where the exam and the Association of Certified MBAs comes in.

Here is just one quote from the Chapel Hill, NC newspaper (home to the University of North Carolina) from a senior VP at Bank of America (Oct. 2002):

"Employers want to be sure MBA earners have these fundamental skills before hiring them, said Page Stephens, senior vice president of corporate banking at Bank of America. "I think the exam has its merits."
But Stephens said that although where students earn their degrees is important, it is essential for an MBA to have mastered fundamental business principles.
In the past, Stephens said, he has been disappointed by MBAs' lack of fundamental knowledge. He added that he would like to see applicants take the exam to show they have a basic level of competency, regardless of what program they graduated from. "

One other point to make, the AACSB has just added a new component to their accreditation guidelines around “assurance of learning.” Accredited schools must establish learning goals and implement ways to measure if their students are actually learning. The CMBA exam, with its academic objects, is a component of meeting the assurance of learning standards. The schools get the accreditation compliance component, the student gets the marketplace differentiation and employers ensure their new hires learned all of the fundamentals. Everybody wins.

I invite you to spend some time on the Certified MBA web site reading some of the other material there. I hope you will reconsider and use the CMBA credential to forward your career.

 

Re: Certified MBA

Nice backpedaling, but you are simply stating the obvious. The point was that those who pursue graduate degrees do so to differentiate themselves from undergraduates (allowing them to compete more effectively) much as those with the “certified” MBA would differentiate themselves regular MBAs. As I pointed out, MBAs aren’t usually competing with undergraduates for the same positions. If a comparison isn’t being made, then differentiation isn’t necessary, or perhaps even possible

“Certified” MBAs, however, are competing against MBAs for the same positions. What proof do you have that a “certified” MBA has an advantage over a MBA? Ironically, as any MBA is sure to tell you, many of the claims the CMBA makes clearly skirt the lines of truth in advertising and only don’t cross it by an abundant use of weasel words.

My use of specific terminology was general in nature and served to make a valid point. Your statement, on the other hand, is nothing more than an ad hominem attack. Stating explicitly that you occupy a superior strata to me, sir, is clearly oxymoronic. This is exactly what I was referring to when I described how an employer would view a candidate who claimed to be a “certified” MBA.

 

Re: Re: Certified MBA

Individuals with undergraduate degrees and those without much education at all can be found throughout all levels of thousands of companies. Individuals differentiate themselves from other individuals, and compete regardless of their level of education.

Come on Gus, I am getting tired of knocking down your stick figures. If you are going to go through the effort at least prop them up with a little thinking.

Since you do not know me, any slurs you use are just an attempt on your part to attack and intimidate.

Ralph Page MBA, CMBA, MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA

 

Maybe there is something interesting here. We spend a lot of time discussing the legitimacy and utility of degrees: accredited, unaccredited, mill, etc. But what about certifications? And where does the CMBA reside in the spectrum of possibilities?

 

Fun with CMBA

Would it be fair to say that the more substandard or the lower the reputation of the school is the greater the benefit to be derived from a “Certified” MBA?

Is that a (not so) subtle jab at Nova?

Uh, how about the old-fashioned way? Try matching your unique set of skills and experience to the organization’s needs.

…allowing you to differentiate yourself by taking the high road and not resorting to gimmicks.

Personally, I like eliminating all those candidates that end a sentence with a preposition. Works for me!

I don’t understand. Are you saying that the Certified MBA can get me into the job fairs at the institutions where the employers are recruiting and I’ll have an equal chance at employment as the graduates of those institutions? If not, are you implying that employers have ceased recruiting at institutions and are relying instead on the CMBA? Please explain by what precise mechanism does the CMBA force employers to cease missing meeting many great candidates from schools other than the ones from which they recruit and hire.

Has its merits? Not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it? Is that the best you can do?

It seems that Mr. Stephens has made some poor hiring decisions, but this is not surprising. In my firm, Mr. Stephens would never have made it to the second interview because he ends sentences with prepositions.

I guess any kind of gobbledygook will do as long if you get to mention the AACSB in there somewhere. I am not certain, but I doubt you will find an organization more opposed to the CMBA concept than the AACSB.

Are you seriously implying that the CMBA is providing institutions some of the benefits found in AACSB accreditation?

Differentiation, certainly, but you have not made a case that the difference results in superiority or a competitive advantage. I am an employer and I see it a distinct disadvantage in a candidate. You seem to forget that many employers have MBAs. What do you think their reaction will be to a candidate presenting an unproven credential asserting that it is superior?

Wow! I thought that was precisely what the MBA degree did. You seem to disagree. Perhaps that is why someone can earn the “Certified” MBA designation without having a real MBA.

Wait a minute; you didn’t mention ICI. At $300 per examination, it appears they are the biggest winners of all!

Once again, what proof can you offer that the “Certified” MBA (as opposed to a MBA from a reputable school) offers a competitive advantage to those who hold such a designation?

 

Re: Re: Re: Certified MBA

What’s your point? You continue to state the obvious as if it were some profound observation.

There you go again.

Is there a point in there, somewhere? If you are going to claim that you have refuted someone’s point it might be a good idea letting your readers know precisely what point you are refuting, and (if it’s not too much trouble) what the point you were trying to make was.

Overall, your post was a pathetic and extremely transparent attempt at evasion. The question (and the real issue) remains as follows:

• Being that “Certified” MBAs are competing against MBAs for the same positions, what proof do you have that a “Certified” MBA has an competitive advantage over a MBA?

This is the CMBA’s major selling proposition. If it cannot not be corroborated clearly and simply, the designation is sham.

I think you are taking this discussion much more personally than intended. My comments and descriptions were general in nature. I understand that there are many who in today’s society who subscribe to a philosophy of victimization, but I can’t imagine why you would think they all applied to you. (I thought you were above all that. )

I was only expressing how I, as an employer, would regard the “Certified” MBA designation. Stick to the issues, and try to contain those feelings that cause you to believe this is all about you. Otherwise, you run the risk of convincing me (and I’m sure many others) that my terminology and descriptions really do apply to you.

 

I guess that’s why they call it DegreeInfo.

From what I have been able to ascertain so far, the CMBA is the WAUC of certifications.

 

LOL!

 

Two Scottish merks worth from a Business School:

There was something about certificated MBAs a year or so ago, I think from Thomson Learning. I was asked my view and I offered the opinon that if it took off (i.e., made money) then it would not be long before rival "certification" of MBAs would spring up, which would require some "ranking" system to differentiate between (a bit like those authorising bodies in World Boxing).

On a practical level, if it was to take off it would have to convince Business Schools that the syllabi it is certifying from is what Business Schools teach in their MBAs, which means all participants aligning their detailed syllabi, otherwise, to take a simple example, if Business School A includes calculus in its programmes but not regression, and at Business School B it is the reverse, one of them would have to drop a subject topic to meet whatever the Certification testers considered important.

Now this would mean Business Schools (and their sponsoring universities) handing over syllabi content to an outside commercial organisation, of unknown academic quality. Judging by the plethora of unintelligible designations after its promoter's name here, I am not convinced this is a serious proposition. Listing designations in this way is a bit like guys and gals when I was younger - the more they talked about sex it was pretty clear they weren't getting any. Call me steetwise, but these meaningless designations suggest to me a pathetic attempt to impress with no academically valid punch behind it .

Finally, as mentioned, if the certification is what matters, why spend thousands getting an MBA at a serious Business School when you could go through a programme to get the certificate? No doubt, soon to follow, will be packages supplying just that and, perhaps even courses, at a price of course. Its commercial, stupid.

 

I think Tulane already has MBA certificate program ! Do they mean that a student need not go through the regular MBA program after getting this "certificate"?

I remember some universities do have "mini MBA" programs.

 

Yes, unbelievably Tulane does offer such a program. I consider it serious fraud and I can't believe that SACS is letting them get away with it.

It is an 8-week continuing education certificate program in business administration. If that's what the called it, it would be fine. But they call it an "MBA Certificate."

In case Tulane missed it, the "M" in MBA stands for Master, as in graduate degree.

The whole thing infuriates me for so many reasons. What's next? 10-week regionally accredited PhD Certificates? A one-week bachelor's degree certificate?

Oh, and looking at the site, I also noticed that the school is AACSB accredited!

http://www.tulaneu.com/

 

This is just another "certifier" in the new world of the checking rather than doing for a living. There are established certifications and the need exists for some, but the plethora of upstarts and me-toos in this business underscore the scam especially when taken to extremes.

Personally, I don't see much value in working for someone who can't properly interview a business candidate. The argument seems to be in favor of outsourcing judgment and decision making.

While we're at it, let's certify M.S. degrees and maybe M.A.s too.

 

Firts of all, sorry to everyone for bringing this old dead topics. Its just that I came to this board yesterday and I am loving it,so I am reading everything I can here. Also, sorry about my english (you'll see). I am trying to get better.

About the issue, I believe that, provided that the certificate is designed as a really rigorous examination (I don´t know anything about it yet), it might be a good idea.

If I understood correctly, Edinburgh Business School also evaluates its students only by examinations. I know that the school provides interaction with students, has its own high-quality materials and everything, but its possible to a student to earn his MBA just by studying very hard by himself.
I believe that, If the certificate can be as rigorous as EBS examinations, than someone who gets it must carry the same merits as someone who graduates from the EBS MBA.

I don't believe that the certificate would influence business schools' curriculum that much, provided that it keeps evaluating the core of the fundamental disciplines (I am just not sure if Operations should be one of them).

I believe that the beauty of such a system (ok, beauty is too much) is that students from universities out of the top spots can prove their value. If someone comes from a low tier university but has in depth knowledge due to his/her own effort, this person could use the certificate to demonstrate having the same knowledge of the fundamentals as a standard Harvard/Wharton/whatever MBA graduate.

It is also good for great schools that have not so great reputation among employees, which applies to many distance learning universities as well. Provided that students of a DL university can do as well as students from the top ten brick and mortar universities on the test, the tendency will be that this DL university (and DL in general) will be better evaluated on teh long run.

The main problem I see is that, if benchmarking with students from the best schools is their best benefit, the certificate must find a way to motivate students from the best schools to take the test. Or else that will be nothing to benchmark against for the main targets of the certificate.

Maybe paying some MBA graduates from the top schools to take the test would be a good idea. But I am sure it would be necessary a good amount of money to convince them to take the test, since it is a vry big risk to do poorly on a test when you have a name like Stanford or Columbia on your CV.

If the certicate people manage to do this, however, the they could develop rankings with the scores of people who take the test, or something like that. It would be one more tool to recruiters, and also one more tool to MBAs to rove their value. In my views, not bad at all.

This is, of course, just my humble opinion. What do you all think?

Thanks for the attention.

 

Nup. The concept undermines and is redundant with the purpose of accreditation and approval. If you have legitimately earned credentials (degrees), you shouldn't need to re-certify them. For example, CA clearly states in its Education Code that approval is certification by the State. This is not intended to get into an accred vs approval discussion but merely an example of how degrees are already certified.

 

I understand your reasoning. But I believe my point still stands. Lets say I graduate from a tier 2/3 DL MBA lacking the money or time to go to a bricks and mortars top tier school. If I commit myself hard enough to studying, afterwards the certificate can give me the opportunity to show that, in business fundamentals, I can be as good or better than students from the top schools.

Most schools, although accredited do not have the same reputation as the best ones. If someone cand do better than students from the top schools in the test, this can be used as a reason to convince a future employer of his/her knowledge, giving him better chance to compete in the marketplace.

Thanks for your response.

 

Hi Friendlyman

I think youhave missed the point about these so-called certificates and bringing EBS into the argument is grossly misleading.

You write: "If I understood correctly, Edinburgh Business School also evaluates its students only by examinations. I know that the school provides interaction with students, has its own high-quality materials and everything, but its possible to a student to earn his MBA just by studying very hard by himself.
I believe that, If the certificate can be as rigorous as EBS examinations, than someone who gets it must carry the same merits as someone who graduates from the EBS MBA."

Yes, EBS evauates its students solely by final examinations. Some Business Schools do not even do that - some give MBAs without final examinations. But to compare EBS final examinations with these 'certificates' is spurious. These are about 'vailidating' a student's MBA obtained elsewhere but as the syllabi of the 2,500 MBAs in the world from 1,300 universities vary it cannot be an examination of what they have learned if they worked to a different, or substantially different, syllabi. For example, we do not teach calculus: does an inability to answer a question of calculus invalidate one of our graduates?

The certificates can only test candidates against the syllabi they did study and as graduates of Business Schools have been tested already by their final examinations it seems pointless to do so again, though it might make money for the providers. As there are rival tests, which is to be counted or do we collect them from every rival business provider? And who designs the syllabi? How is it tested? How does it fit the variations in syllabi?

To suggest 'possible to a student to earn his MBA just by studying very hard by himself' is a truism, at all Schools. People learn differently, including on campus MBA programmes, and on those that have compulsory attendance and class participation. That some Schools have soft exam regimes, including off campus and out of sight assignments (exposed to fraud), is more worthy of comment than to highlight EBS with its tough but fair exams as somehow endorsing an 8-week 'certification' programme.

To get a comprehensive 'ranking' all Business Schools would have to adapt their syllabi to the 'rankers', or there would have to be 'choice of exam questions' across different syllabi (how different) and this would lower the assessment value of the test. In my view it is a non-runner. I doubt if the 'top Schools' would participate in an outside body assessing their students who have already passed their exams.

 

Professor, it was not my intent in any way to mean that EBS is not a great, rigorous school. In fact, quite the opposite. What I was trying to say is that the certificate, provided it gains high enough standards, can be very good, following EBS example.

I mentioned EBS as a benchmark, an example of how good the certificate can be, and I hope you comprehend my intentions now.

The syllabi seems to be really an issue, but I believe that its possible to concentrate in the core of the disciplines. In Accounting, as an example, there are some things that almost any MBA teachs (balance sheet, profit and loss account and such) and this kind of thing should be on the exam (as mkt 4 Ps, too).If they concentrate in content depth (demanding case studies) intead of breadth (lots of questions qithout logical realtion to each other covering a wide array of "memorizing" subjects) I still believe it can be done.

Thanks for your response.

 

I believe in the world of education, the only way you will be able to say your education is "as good as" Harvard or Yale or EBS is to have gone to Harvard or Yale or EBS.

 

You are right.

Still, using tests, low tier school/students can assure they have raw knowledge of particular subjects comparable, maybe better, than other people (top school students).( edit Only in some cases, of course. After all, top schools tend to have more top students. (finish edit)

I don't believe the certificate can be the main tool to recruiters, but it can be a tool. Plus, it is a nice motivation to study a little more, since we might compare our results with results from other students around the world.

 

What does the certification prove? It proves that you restudied (assuming as Professor Kennedy point out, that your MBA covered the certification material in the first place) the material from your MBA over a period of weeks or months, and that you sat for, and passed, an exam on that material - exactly the sort of thing you did when you were in the MBA program in the first place. I fail to see how this makes you a "better" MBA graduate.

I think the certification argument is misplaced, because it assumes that detailed knowledge of the MBA curriculum is the most important thing. Presumably, any degree already “certifies” us by signaling that we have been able to master complex material, and expresses our knowledge of that material at a sufficiently high level. This is what employers are concerned with. Yes, they want a certain base level of knowledge, but, more importantly, they want to know that they've hired someone who can think, talk, and write, as well as someone who knows where to find the information that he or she may have temporarily forgotten.

The idea that we all need to remember every single detail from our graduate programs, and that future employers are counting on this, is ridiculous. Moreover, as others have expressed, the implicit assumption behind the CMBA, is that our universities have not taught us what they said they were going to teach us, so we need some sort of alternative to make up for this deficiency. Again, ridiculous.