CCC: Let's Whine About Credit Transfer

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Nov 20, 2021.

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  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    OTHER COLLEGES NOT ACCEPTING TRANSFER CREDITS
    If you are having problems with colleges that will not take our credit, please feel free to open a complaint based on religious discrimination since we are TRACS accredited. (But first[,] send the letter below to the college before filing this complaint.) Also mention in your complaint that regional accreditations by law do not exist any longer and that TRACS meets the same standards as their college since both accreditations are CHEA (government) approved.

    Students transferring your credits to state colleges that are refusing to accept your credit, please copy and paste this in an email to your credit denying college:

    Dear XXX, PHub? Xvidz? Which one?

    First, please remember that the Department of Education (DOE) has removed all regional accreditation restrictions. There are no regional accreditors anymore due [to] their monopoly-like practices.

    Second, please remember that the DOE is now actively enforcing any type of religious discrimination and free speech infractions. If you refused to recognize my community college due to its religious accreditation and my practice of free speech by selecting this college, I will have no choice but to report you and your organization to the new Free Speech Hotline ([email protected]) regarding this discrimination. Please keep in mind that TRACS is a religious accreditor with full CHEA approval, which is the same group that approves all the former regional accreditor. (accreditors?)


    Community Christian College (cCc) will provide complete syllabi for all courses for you to review. cCc only offers general education courses. cCc can demonstrate that its professors are highly qualified and can demonstrate that they have much higher credentials than that found at a typical community college.

    Please let me know your final decision on transferring my credits to you.

    Respectfully submitted,

    XXXX

    https://www.cccollege.edu/new-government-freedom-of-speech-hotline

    My two cents: First, I think CCC should hire an editor before they post such nonsense on their website. Second, they should know the difference between an NGO (CHEA) and a government agency (ED). Third, they should educate themselves on credit transfers. As far as I know, Harvard, which is RA (as we know it) can deny transferring credits from Yale (also RA). The decision to accept transfer credits is the sole discretion of the receiving institution.
     
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  2. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Active Member

    As far as I'm aware, it's extremely uncommon to be able to transfer all (or even most) of your credits from one school to another. The handful of schools that allow it (like the Big 3, WGU, UMPI) are serious exceptions and that's a big reason why they're recommended here and on the other forum.
     
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  3. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    I don't understand the criticism levelled at CCC. Many RA colleges turn down college credit simply based on the source of accreditation, frequently forsaking the evaluation of course content. That does appear to be a form of discrimination. The students have a perfect right to complain about this matter, especially with the new USDOE rules. Community Christian College is not claiming that all their courses must transfer into degree programs at RA colleges. That would indeed be foolish. It is making a legitimate argument about equal treatment of college credit from CHEA/USDOE-approved accreditation bodies. I could definitely understand the frustration of the students from TRACS-accredited colleges.
     
  4. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I do not deny that discrimination in transfer credits exists. However, the case that CCC is making is laughable, at best. We know that historically and, perhaps still the case, many RA schools have refused to accept credit from NA schools. I believe that any discrimination graduates of CCC will face in transferring credits will have more to do with the former NA status than the fact that TRACS focuses on Christian colleges, universities, and seminaries. Institutional accreditors such as ACCSC, DEAC, and others may face discrimination simply because they were formerly NAs, the same reason TRACS may face discrimination. I believe religion has little or no bearing.
     
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  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Of course it's discrimination by dictionary definition, but accreditation is not a protected legal class. This is not religious discrimination since RA schools have the same policies for secular accreditors. It doesn't matter if USDOE has RA or NA categories. RA schools can still decide that the formerly-labeled NA schools do not meet their standards. Considering that so many TRACS schools lost regional accreditation, they have a pretty strong case to make. If I were running an RA school, I'd be very cautious about accepting degrees or transfer credits from ACCSC and TRACS-accredited institutions. Seeing this stupid letter from CCC doesn't help their case.
     
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  6. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    Their actions open CCC up to a lot of criticism. I’m not even familiar with them and this response makes them questionable as an institution. They apparently do not understand articulation agreements or accreditation or the applicability of the DOE language. If TRACS students are frustrated, it should be at their institutions for not clarifying upfront that their coursework is unlikely to transfer. I’m at an RA state institution and I can’t even promise that course work transfers to other RA state institutions, without an articulation agreement between the institutions. That a school defaults to victim status over this and tries to redirect student anger in this manner is highly disappointing.
     
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  7. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    You can't turn down college credit based on hunches. You should have evidence that a course coming from an accredited source is not comparable to the course offered at the RA institution. The new USDOE rules have made the historical precedent argument much weaker, so I am not convinced by this line of defense. Here's where I could see a legitimate case for turning down a course from CCC; A student comes in with a course in biology for potential transfer. In the content evaluation process, it turns out that the whole course was taught from a creationist perspective. There are misrepresentations of evolutionary theory in the course content, etc. But a student being told that he needs to take the course again SIMPLY becouse his former course had been taken at a college with TRACS accreditation...I could see why this letter would be issued.
     
  8. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Except, you can, and colleges do it! Whether it is fair, it still happens.
     
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  9. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    You may be surprised at how easy and I would argue justifiable it is to decline transfer credit. The changes with the DOE have to do with Federal financial aid eligibility and does not impact accreditation credit transfer processes. There is no issue with denying a course due to accreditation, in fact that is standard operating procedure. Even with RA accreditation, some institutions still deny transfer credit without an articulation agreement, and for legitimate reasons at times.

    If you’re working in education, I would encourage you to attend some accreditation conferences and training courses, you may find them great learning experiences.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  10. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    All I am saying is that the "standard operating procedure" is potentially open to being challenged with the new rules. The fact that the disrimination has become normal doesn't justify it.
     
  11. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    You’re applying language outside of its scope, it’s not applicable. Nor is the discrimination label applicable.
     
  12. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    Colleges have a perfect right to reject transfers, but there must be a reasonable cause for the rejection and it should be openly communicated to the potential transfer student. Otherwise, it is baseless discrimination and deserves pushback. I am not saying that discrimination in this area is necessarily wrong, but it must be justified. The fact that many colleges reject credits without even looking at the student’s course and simply refer to the college’s RA/non-RA status signals a troubling trend. It is a way of showing contempt for other institutional accreditors and students in accredited American colleges.
     
  13. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    Most reputable institutions do all of this. They frequently have websites explaining the transfer process, who evaluated them, and will have sit down discussions with the individual over it. Although it may be semantics, I wouldn’t argue that all those conversations need to be open to the student, as their are internal conversations and discussions that warrant privacy.

    It is justified by adhering to the process, whether individuals find the outcomes acceptable doesn’t eliminate that the institution or department found it justifiable.

    This may be semantics but the verbiage of it being a troubling trend may be a challenging narrative. That is the historical process to start the evaluation process for many institutions, not doing so would be the deviation, if it were to occur.

    Perhaps you could interpret it as such, but your previous points to reinforce this as justifiable. Accreditation really is about having systems and processes that measure and evaluate educational institutions and are externally audited and evaluated. These systems and processes are not necessarily guarantees of quality education, but greatly increase the propensity towards such outcomes. Not all accreditors have as thorough systems, processes, auditing, and evaluations. Which immediately makes this not an apples to apples comparison. An RA institution which generally only evaluated RA coursework can fall back on that same argument. If a schools own accreditor didn’t even thoroughly evaluate the institution…. This is why we effectively have tiers or a hierarchy in accreditation and why RA is effectively the gold standard, as although there are many different regional accreditors, they all are widely recognized for having extensive systems and processes that are widely respected. There is a cost to having robust systems and processes and why some institutions choose to not strive for RA status, but removing those requirements certainly lowers the propensity of having quality education, and as the internal systems and external auditing requirements are removed… we start diving down towards the bottom where diploma mills, predatory operations, and other fraud becomes… more frequent. Even TRACS ran into issues…
     
  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Which new rules are you referring to? All the Department of Education did was get rid of the terms national accreditation and regional accreditation. The Department of Education has a publication that explains that it does not control institution's policies on faculty and acceptance of credits. That is what the accreditors are for. If the accreditors do not require their institutions to accept certain transfer credits, then the decisions are left to the institutions. Some states have required that public institutions within the state accept each other's credits for comparable courses. Otherwise, institutions can reject credits for whatever reason they choose. I attended a community college that wouldn't accept certain transfer courses from University of Phoenix, and University of Phoenix is RA.

    The VA requires APA accreditation for psychologists, CACREP accreditation for counselors, and NAACLS accreditation or a ASCP certification for medical technologists. Is there anything proving that psychologists who don't graduate from APA-accredited schools are less qualified? I don't know, but if you pass your state's licensing exam, that should show that you're just as qualified as everyone else. Regardless, the VA's "discrimination" is legal.
     
  15. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    sanantone said: "If the accreditors do not require their institutions to accept certain transfer credits, then the decisions are left to the institutions."

    USDOE and CHEA need to ensure that the approved quality assessors are treated as equals, particularly when it comes to approving colleges that offer general education classes (at a minimum). It should not be "legal" to turn down general education course credits from TRACS/DEAC/ABHE colleges based SOLELY on the source of college accreditation (making students potentially redo two years of U.S. accredited gen ed courses). This is a mockery of justice. What does that say about the authorizing bodies that take a "hands off" approach to such practices and leave students in such predicaments?
     
  16. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    That is outside of their authority. Additionally, for reasons mentioned previously, not all accreditors are equal. Which has been a significant factor in the struggles with higher Ed lately.

    It could also be viewed as a mockery of the institutions that may be intentionally misleading students. It is predatory behavior if they are not explaining the limitations of their accreditation to perspective or active students, your anger may be misdirected.

    The matter is outside of their legal authority, it doesn’t say anything about them.
     
  17. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    vonnegut,

    What's the point of having goverment-approved institutional "quality assurance" bodies (the majority in the current setup) whose judgments are routinely dimissed as inferior or unworthy of consideration by most colleges under the umbrella of a select few "regional" bodies? How does that foster student confidence in the quaity assurance mechanisms in the U.S?
     
  18. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    Quite honestly, a number of them have experienced challenges, with attempts to shut them down. While I’m not necessarily an RA or bust advocate, certainly believe someone really needs to ponder the potential limitations that could occur with pursuing coursework at non-RA institutions. The reality simply is, there are institutions that skimp on quality assurance and the limitations on transferability IS an aspect of quality assurance in action. Unfortunately some institutions don’t explain this well to their potential students, and they often have a significant conflict of interest with doing so. Thankfully, almost every community college, state university, major public colleges, and even many of the large for-profit schools are all RA, which means few individuals face the challenges you mention.
     
  19. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    The U.S. likes to have its cake and eat it too. We don't want big government controlling the institutions, but since taxpayers are funding financial aid, we have to verify that these accreditors are legitimate. Most employers don't care about RA vs NA, so the NA degrees have some value. If someone must transfer from an NA school, they can transfer to another NA school or one of the RA schools that accept NA credits. The national accreditation bodies could do more to show that their standards are on par with those of regional accreditation bodies. It's hard to make that case when you're caught accrediting fake colleges.
     

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