California Pacific University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by docmeek, Aug 26, 2004.

  1. docmeek

    docmeek New Member

    Is California Pacific University a diploma mill? I realize it is state-approved, non-RA accredited. Is there any value in one of their degrees?

    I am a physician with interest in administration/management. I have found that patients generally are turned off by physicians with MBA's. I have no intention of abandoning clinical practice. I was thinking of doing certificate courses or an MPH but considering that a higher degree is not necessary to be in administration, and the high cost of the programs, I am considering other options. The CPU Ph.D. in Management interested me because it provides me with some courses, I will do a dissertation, and it has a reasonable price. If I am always honest in my CV (distance learning, Califronia approved, non-regionally accredited) is there value? Is there a problem with adding Ph.D. after my name? (I have traditional degrees in chemistry, psychology, and osteopathic medicine).

    R. Meek, D.O.
  2. jackjustice

    jackjustice New Member

    There is certainly no problem in adding a degree designation along with your DO. Unless you plan to teach, it is hard to see the value of a PhD over, for example, an MBA. Administrative positions, especially in a health care environment are competitive. They are occupied by health care professionals like yourself and by those who have business or other appropriate backgrounds but are not health care professionals. Good advise: though state-approved degrees are legal and helpful to many, look for a good distance-learning program from a regionally accredited school. There are many available. Secondly, go for the degree and not certification programs. Thirdly, I have found, at least in the pharmaceutical arena, that the MBA is extremely helpful. If desired, certificate programs can follow the MBA. The MBA will probably be more useful than say an MPH, depending on the organization. Lastly, there is nothing that says you have to use the same degree designations in all areas of practice. If you feel patients are turned off being treated by a physician has earned an MBA, don't use it. On the other hand, if it seems helpful in establishing expertise for an administrative position, use it.
  3. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Just a suggestion...

    St. Joseph's College of Maine has a distance learning health care administration and management program (both certificate and masters). A mere week or two of residency on their beautiful campus sometime during the degree's course of study is all that's required beyond simple distance learning methodologies.

    SJCME is owned by the Sisters of Mercy (of which I've always been something of a fan, even though I'm not Catholic) which, in turn, owns several medical/healthcare centers and hospitals, so I'm guessing they pretty much know what a good healthcare admin/management program should cover.

    SJCME also has something of a reputation for treating distance learning students very well (not just a number, that sort of thing) with a lot of personal attention and care.

    Check it out:

    SJCME's Certificate in Healthcare Management

    SJCME's Master in Healthcare Services Administration
  4. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    No is not a Diploma Mill and yes it requires real and hard work, it took me 5 years to finish my DBA>

    Value: It depends for What you want it, is sure a legal alternative, but it does have it limitations<I did mine for self-satisfaction>People that will benefit for this type of degrees are business owners and self-employed.
  5. docmeek

    docmeek New Member

    I need to clarify my question. A regionally accredited MBA or Ph.D. program would be ideal, and I'm still considering them. However, would a California Pacific Univeristy Ph.D. ever hurt me? Could it be worse than not doing any degree? I don't expect that it would be held equivalent to an RA Ph.D., however, might it show some ambition for further education in management?

    As a practicing physician, it is pretty much accepted that traditional education is out of the question. While I do love education for education sake, my goal would be to get more involved in administration. That said, if I never did, I don't think I would regret getting the Ph.D. in management. I might not say that if the degree cost me $40k+. I am still looking into all of my options and I am open to information on other programs. Anyone else have advice... I am still undecided.

    R. Meek, D.O.
  6. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    It could, and therein lies the problem. There are a significant number of people who do classify CPU as a "less than wonderful" school.

    There are many accredited distance learning programs that would meet your needs. They offer everything that CPU offers with the added advantage that they are accredited.

    Tom Nixon
  7. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    I've worked in, or been affiliated with five hospitals in my career so far. In that time I've NEVER known it to be essential for a doctor to have an added degree in order to "get more involved with administration." What are you trying to administer? A hospital? A group practice? Sometimes you see doctors who also have an MPH although typically, they pick that up while they're in Medical School (it's a common dual degree program) I even know a doctor who has an MD and an MBA. He doesn't practice any longer, he's the head of a huge managed care corporation. If you want administrative experience all you have to do is walk into the nearest hospital (I assume you're affiliated) and volunteer to sit on some boards. How about the ethics board? I'll be honest. I think you're a troll.
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Would a troll claim to be a Doctor of OSTEOPATHIC Medicine? My favorite personal physicians, except for my current doc, have ALL been D.O.s; I'd hate to think the profession has attracted posers!
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I had the same thought but my opinion on this kind subject is that it is generally better to imagine them being serious. After all if it is a troll it is really a rather harmless troll. ;)
  10. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Whenever someone says "I'll be honest" or "to be honest" I think to myself, "You mean you haven't been honest up to this point?"

    Substitute the word "candid" for "honest" in such statements and, voila, suddenly all potential credibility issues evaporate.

    Just tryin' to be helpful.

    As for whether ol' docmeek is a troll: I dunno. But I do know this... and it's purely anecdotal, mind you... between MD's and DO's, the ones more likely to be a tiny bit clueless about things outside their specific medical training are the latter. Not meant to be an insult, mind you... just an observation. If it's accurate in docmeek's case, it might help to explain why he asking these questions.

    Seems to me that it's fairly painless to give him the benefit of the doubt. And if it turns out that he's legit, we've certainly given him a hearty welcome to the forums, haven't we?
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Therein lies the rub for unaccredited schools. Many will automatically consider them degree mills. For example, I suspect that California Coast University has a better reputation than CPU. It appears that CCU may become accredited, after delaying the attempt for far too long. Our own Kirkland has a degree from CCU. Yet he has to spend time defending his degree against people calling it a fraud.

    In a way it is unfair to CCU and CPU to call them diploma mills but they're unaccredited and most unaccredited institutions are degree mills. So in another way it's fair because you can't expect everyone to be as informed as the people in this forum and I'd guess that over 99.9% of the unaccredited institutions are diploma mills. Fair or unfair, if you go with CPU be prepared to defend your degree against people calling CPU and you a fraud.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2004
  12. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Re: Re: California Pacific University


    Hey, well, I still hold the record; I started in early 1996 in the CPU DBA, stopped out to do a couple of startups and finished in Summer of 2003, although I think I could have finished it in 3 years without distractions. It was time and money well spent, and it gave me an advantage over the rest of my cohort during Ph.D. coursework...


  13. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Yes, it is true that many folks lack critical thinking skills, but don't let ignorant people impede your educational growth in either the RA or non-RA school degree program of your choice.

  14. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    People frequently withhold their true thoughts, sometimes saying something more diplomatic, sometimes saying nothing at all. While this may be acting in a manner that is less than completely honest, most people recognize the necessity of toning down a comment, a reply or just generally being a bit more restrained in ones speech at times. I do this all the time and so do you. Then there are times when we are completely honest and sometimes we preface our completely honest comments with a statement that identifies them as being just that, completely honest. Here's another one. I don't think you're "Just tryin' to be helpful," I think you just enjoy being critical.
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: California Pacific University

    I mariculated to Union in 1986. I graduated in 2003. Took a huge break in between. That may not be a world record, but I got the local one. :cool:
  16. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: California Pacific University

    Well, that might be record for finishing such a worthwhile goal without giving up, and a RA Ph.D. no less. Bravo.

  17. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    Re: Re: Re: California Pacific University

    Hey Dave, Good to hear from you!

    Still around!

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