Bad Press for UOP

Yes, yes, yes! I grew up in the Bay Area and as long as I can remember, the initials 'UOP' have always meant the University of the Pacific. That's probably even more true in Sacramento. Maybe it's a Northern California thing. On the discussion boards, I always use the initials 'UoPx' for the University of Phoenix.

Phoenix seems to consist of a constantly changing crowd of adjuncts. Teachers are there one moment and then gone the next. Pay seems to be extremely low compared to other universities, so UoPx can't be very selective when it's hiring faculty. Apparently they get lots of people looking for a second job or for some extra income.

Those are common enough complaints about UoPx. In particular, I worry that UoPx instructors spend significantly fewer hours teaching a 3-unit class than conventional instructors, with the remaining time taken up by group activities. That might not be accurate, but it's how I've heard it described.

 

Knowledge vs. Degree

In my experience with distant learning, I have observed that instructors, professors, adjunct faculty or whatever title you give them, are merely "facilitators". The burden of obtaining the knowledge is on the student by reading the textbooks, doing the assignments and so forth. Facilitators merely guide and evaluate your learning experience. Hopefully, they interject their unique experiences and viewpoints on the subject but the distant learning platform apears to have shortcomings in delivering the instructors insights.

All in all, the blessing or reward of obtaining the knowledge is predicated on the motivation of the learner regardless of the delivery method. That's my opinion anyway! My guess is that a highy motivated student can get a "Harvard education" for the cost of a library card and a fee late fees. Of course we jump through the hoops and pay the high tuition to get the degree.

 

Yeah, that's basically how I see it. The biggest problem is that each category is really a range, from best to worst (and how that's determined can change from case to case) so there's lots of overlap.

Number 5 (foreign accredited schools) is an especially broad category, ranging from Oxford and Cambridge at one extreme (perhaps above Harvard and Stanford) down to unknown mystery schools in places where academic standards are extremely iffy. So these places can overlap everything from 1 to 6. Maybe even 7, if you count things like St. Regis University.

Number 6 (unaccredited) is usually synonymous with number 7 (mill), but they can very rarely rise as high as number 1 (RA B&M). There are even a couple of unaccredited prestige schools (albeit prestigious in special situations).

A few of the recognized non-RA accreditors are very big deals in specialized fields, even more important than RA. That's sometimes true even when they serve as stand-alone institutional accreditation. ATS theological schools, ABA law schools, chiropractic schools with their own accreditor, orthodox Jewish yeshivas with theirs, etc.

I think that the NCA/HLC has a tiger by the tail with UoPx. Phoenix operates many hundreds of "campuses" worldwide. It has as many students as the entire country of Iceland has population. There's no way that the HLC can possibly make site visits to every outpost of the empire. That's just impossible.

So pretty clearly the accreditor is relying on glossy submissions from Phoenix about how wonderful their own internal quality controls are. In a sense, Phoenix accredits itself. And given Phoenix's size and wealth, I'm sure that it boasts a legal department that would dwarf the accreditor's entire staff and budget. Any hint of Phoenix's accreditation being threatened and there'd be instant litigation. Apollo's stock price depends on it.

My own layman's impression is that the NCA made the mistake of letting UoPx grow out of control, and now they are almost powerless to rein it in.

 

As a UOP grad, shortly after my graduation I started a graduate program at Penn State. Yes, the Pennsylvania State University. The one where Joe Paterno coaches football. That one.

You know what? The methods of teaching (including no tests), learning model, etc. were nearly identical to what I experienced at UOP. In fact, I received the same A- that was approximately my GPA while at UOP.

If UOP has a substandard learning model, apparently large state universities have modeled their online module after it. And if their education is substandard, then it didn't impact my ability to perform well at graduate-level classes.

UOP is a very average bachelor's degree. It's really expensive too. Given the name they've managed to make for themselves over the past couple of years, I'd probably steer someone in another direction if I were advising them and there were alternatives that met the student's need.

However, it is far from a degree mill.

 

No one is defending UoP. What is being defended is the truth. I've been highly critical of UoP in many areas, but academics hasn't been one of them. I've taught undergraduate and graduate courses for several universities, and my opinion is that UoP is comparably rigorous academically. It's their business practices that deserve criticism.

What constitutes "barely above degree mill level"? This is a very vague abstraction.

Please share the data that supports your contention that "....the degree is considered a joke by most hiring managers...." As someone who's done doctoral research in what managers find acceptable and what they do not, I would be very interested in this research. And surprised, since I was under the impression such research did not exist. I am grateful to be mistaken, and look forward to reading the details. Or was that just a bit of opinionated hyperbole?

Funny you should bring up price. I thought your criticism was about UoP's lack of quality. Would a cheaper price mitigate that feeling? Strange.

 

Steve,

This sounds like my wifes grandmother when asked how she was feeling "My hips hurts, I can't see out of one eye, my back locks up, and I feel sick when I eat...other then that I feel great"

 

Let me qualify, I am not aware of scientific research to support my statements. So take it as my personal experience. From my local perspective (California), show me one decent company that would not prefer a California State Graduate over a Phoenix one. It is a result of over marketing, paying low wages to the faculty, and accepting anyone with a pulse (ever heard of anyone being rejected by Phoenix?). Just look at Intel, doesn't it make you wonder that they no longer reimburse Phoenix classes and degrees? In my opinion quality sucks, even if it were good the reputation is that Phoenix provides a poor quality education.

In the so called College Mathematics class that I attended there were people that could not calculate x in the following equation [ 15 = x -12 ]. Again these are all personal experiences but people are well served to at least explore other alternatives prior to signing up with the McDonald's of education. Don’t be afraid if other schools have more demanding requirements, if you want to get an IT degree face the music you will have to take calculus and discrete math, if you want a decent MBA you have to take the GMAT etc.

As for cheap, I'd rather buy something mediocre for less money than more.

 

RA standards

Obviously, University of Phoenix meets regional accreditation standards. Regional accreditation has been stated by many on this forum as the "gold standard". Interesting rhetoric. That's why I like this forum.

 

Oh shit! That's funny!

Abner

 

First, there is no main consensus on this forum.... lol!!

Second, professionally accredited is #1 in my eyes, which didn't make your list..... just wanted to throw that in.

 

From what I've read - Intel changed their requirements for tuition assistance to require the school to be AACSB accredited. They did not single out UOP to eliminate them from their program, merely increased their standards for what schools they will reimburse for.

 

What will be VERY interesting is if a State School lost its professional accreditation, Once that happens, will Intel change their policy?

 

Taking my own ongoing DL MBA journey as a reference point this is so right on every level.

Peace,

Dave C.

 

Probably not. According to this news story, Intel is looking for AACSB-accredited business schools and ABET-accredited engineering and technology programs.

But not all state schools have such accreditation now. For example, many state business schools -- such as Cal State-Dominguez Hills -- are accredited by ACBSP, not AACSB. So if Intel is strictly enforcing their policies, they have already eliminated a number of state schools, not just the University of Phoenix.

Intel is probably not enforcing professional accreditation for computer science degrees. ABET does accredit computer science programs (using a different system than the one for "engineering" programs"); however, ABET accreditation has traditionally been considered optional in this field, and many top schools don't have it. For example, none of the Ivy League schools are ABET-accredited in computer science (though they are all ABET-accredited in engineering).

 

Oh yeah... This old Oliver-Stonesque article by Sam Dillon. Forgot all about this ridiculous piece of drivel... Old, too. Yawn...

Dave