As Adjunct Professors Unionize

Discussion in 'Online & DL Teaching' started by major56, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It's also inaccurate. Maxwell fails to grasp that the employment market is an imperfect one with distinct advantages for the employer. This serves to push wages downward, especially for those least capable of fighting back.

    Failing to understand these things is a peek into one's intellect. Failing to appreciate them is a peek into one's compassion. There are a lot of people who would be fine with seeing the minimum wage eliminated entirely.
  2. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    That's a presumption about my knowledge you've concocted based on nothing. I'm well aware of the imperfection and the employer advantages as it is business 101, not to mention that I have actually done as a career what you appear only able to theorize and reference flawed studies about.

    I did comment on the imperfect nature of the wage system here, so your post shows you aren't really reading what's being said, or you're not understanding it. I mean, you are typing comments in the thread after all, so perhaps you're only really concentrating on reading your own posts because you're in love with them?

    Finally, I think if one fails to read or understand what's being said, speaking on another's supposed deficiency of intellect is quite comical. As many of us have come to know over the years however, you're no stranger to that brand of comedy.
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, I'm reeling!
  4. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Most Fast food workers at their current wages are eating, living indoors, and going to Doctor's when they're ill. They generally find a way to make it.

    People making minimum wage survive. Do they live well? No, of course not, but on minimum wage that's how it works.

    Reading much of Fight For $15's propaganda, I read stories of women who were already poor but couldn't stop having children which made their situation more financially stressful. Sure, I hate to hear about Suzy-10 Kids having to work 80 hours a week on minimum wage just to feed her family and still doesn't have enough, but Suzy-10 Kids had 10 choices to make and that's fine it's her life, but McDonald's shouldn't now have to pay her more money because of the decisions SHE chose to make with her life.

    Or how about the story where one guy was crying because in 15 years he never got a raise working fast food. The guy was very articulate and clearly was intelligent, so in 15 years he couldn't have looked for another job? Well, he says that fast food is all he ever wanted to do. So great, he chose this as a "career", so since he did that he chose what comes with the territory as well, and part of that is minimum wage pay. Burger King shouldn't now have to pay him almost double his wage because he CHOSE to make dropping fries a career and won't look for a better paying job.

    I was poor once. I worked low paying jobs. I didn't expect to be paid double what I was making simply because my job sucked and I was barely getting by. I realized that my job was not worth anything more than what I was getting, and so I worked, saved, and made something of myself to rise out of that situation.

    If you want to have better, you work your way up to it. If you weren't born with the ability to do that (which represents only some), or you simply lack the ambition (which represents a lot more quite frankly), then it's not the job of your employer to pay you at a level that's far above the value of your skill set. It's why they pay the QB a lot more than the Punter. Value.

    What's despicable is when you attempt to inject heartstring rhetoric into the equation.
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Internet anonymity brings out the best in people....not.
  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Employer buyers market

    Maxwell Smart:

    "I've hired Xerox Supervisors at $14.90/hr (if you calculate the salary into an hourly wage) into various centers across this country. That's what many of them were actually paid. They were required to have a college degree, technical knowledge, and prior supervisory experience. Those were the requirements."

    So this major employer wants all that for $14.90/hr and a college degree.? That is laughable and I find it kind of hard to believe, but I could be wrong. If this is true, I think it this shows that employers have had a buyers market when it comes to hiring for a heck of a long time now. Maybe they should pay people with degrees more? After all, we as a forum believe that degrees are supposed to better our lives. Like I said, they must have constant turn over.
  7. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    "Drug dealing is work. Contract killing is work. Those are honorable jobs?"

    I think you are confused on what the term "honorable jobs" means. Pushing a broom for a living is honorable because it does not involve stealing. Contract killing? Drug dealing? Ah, ok.
  8. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    You're right. Many people making minimum wage do live indoors, receive healthcare and eat. But it isn't a mystery. It isn't clever budgeting. It's heavy reliance on social welfare that enables these things. Minimum wage workers receive healthcare through Medicare. They rely on food stamps and food pantries. They live in subsidized housing. Because their employers don't pay them a living wage all taxpayers take on the obligation of ensuring that they aren't starving in the streets. So, these companies thrive and profit with their owners living lives of mansions and countryclubs while the taxpayer heavily subsidizes their employees. One might argue that the biggest recipient of government welfare is the owners of the fast food restaurants. Force them to pay a living wage and we (you, me and every taxpayer) pays less in food stamps, subsidized housing, medicare and daycare credits for low income families.

    Here's the biggest problem with your argument; it relies heavily on the notion of a job's "value" and that some jobs are more "valuable" than others. Jobs do not have inherent value. Wages are largely determined by supply and demand but also by market tolerance for wages. Canada has just as much need for doctors as the United States (arguably more). But the wages of a Canadian physician is lower than that of an American physician because of how the money flows in healthcare in each country. In the U.S., creative billing practices can enable a physician to make significantly more money than a physician with a less savvy billing specialist even if they are providing the same services. One is not simply more valuable than the other.

    If you have a brain tumor then the value of a neurosurgeon is very high. If you don't think sanitation workers are of much value try collecting your garbage for four weeks and see how you feel. Yet, a sanitation worker in New York City can easily make over $80k while having significantly less "skill" than someone working at McDonalds.

    I'm not at all surprised by the fact that you dismiss "heartstring rhetoric" while simultaneously reducing a person to the nickname "Suzy-10 kids" and I believe you've proven my point. Basically, you got yours and you feel that anyone can do the same. So, let's have all of the minimum wage workers, every single one, further their skills and now compete against you in the marketplace. If you want to survive you might have to go back to school to become a doctor or a physical therapist. If you don't then I suppose any economic misfortune you suffer would really just be your own doing.
  9. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    "So, these companies thrive and profit with their owners living lives of mansions and country clubs while the taxpayer heavily subsidizes their employees."

    Exactly. Those low low prices at Wal Mart are low for a reason. Not as cheap as you think, at least from a taxpayer perspective.
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's actually not what he said at all. He was specifically pointing out that he and a hypothetical mother of ten made different choices which led to predictably different results. I'm not saying this hypothetical woman and her kids should starve in the street, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to look at these situations rationally rather than emotionally, and it doesn't mean that at some point people shouldn't eventually experience some of the negative consequences when they've made poor decisions.
  11. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Well, to allude to something I mentioned earlier, this wage was in keeping with the cost of living in many of the areas where they were hired. It's pretty common for employers to operate this way, so I'm not sure what's "hard to believe" about it.

    In areas where the cost of living was deemed to be lower the company paid less than they did for the same job in areas where the cost of living was greater. Believe it or not, there are places in this country where $14.90/hr will get you a pretty decent life. Every place is not existing on San Francisco pricing.

    And yes, there was lots of turnover, but that's the nature of temporary work, it ends, so you'll be out of a job not long after being hired, even more with temporary call center work, so the turnover had very little to do with the pay since most working there would never be able to make more or find a better job in the areas where $14.90/hr was considered good money.
  12. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member


  13. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Nope, not confused at all. You said, and I quote:

    You made no exceptions.
  14. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I casually found this whilst surfing the net for roofing supplies:

    The Hourly Wage Needed to Rent a 2-Bedroom Apartment in 2016, Mapped - CityLab

    Back to my home repairs. I find that I am actually becoming a pretty good construction worker! :smile:

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