Are online degrees getting the respect they deserve?

Are you saying customers would not have the same instant access to you if everyone was in the same building?

The internet had made may things convenient. Things like education, (some) shopping, telecommuting, banking, etc... In the business world, there is still a true value in sitting down with a customer/employee/superior face to face.

 

I was referring to what the student learns (outcomes) rather than what the setting is. Of course every class is different, far to many variables exist for this not to be so. Here is a link to a paper written by some professors at Auburn.
"Although on-campus and distance students certainly receive a different educational
experience, analysis of our sample indicates that distance students in finance classes
certainly do not perform worse than their on-campus counterparts. In fact, controlling for
differences in student characteristics, distance students outperform the traditional oncampus
students by a significant margin."
http://www.business.auburn.edu/~bertumj/manuscript%20-%20hinkelmann.pdf
Of course this has nothing to do with how a degree is received and whether you will recieve bias against a degree earned online.

William

 

Thanks for posting the paper comparing DL to classroom learning. Very interesting stuff. I suspect anyone reading this thread would find the paper interesting. As I stated in previous posts, some schools will have little or no difference in the quality of DL vs classroom programs. The schools that do have a significant difference will be the catalyst for negative bias.

As the author of the paper stated, "There are several limitations to generalizing these results. Finance classes are different than many of the “soft skill” classes in the MBA program, and the leadership, negotiation, and group interaction skills learned in a traditional class setting may not be delivered in a distance setting as readily as the material in the finance classes studied here."

 

First let me say that you should all be aware that since I don't even hold an associate's degree yet (according to gasbag) my opionion doesn't mean much. Just kidding

I graduated from high school and began taking classes at a traditional B&M University. I was more into the social scene, but I did get by and managed pass all of the classes I took. If I had stuck with it, I would have continued to do the minimal amount of work required to pass and eventually would have earned my degree. Now 20 years later, I am pursuing my degree online. I have a passion for it now, I am completely engaged, and I even enjoy it very much. And I do all of this while juggling family and career responsibilities. I suspect that there are many people in the world of online education who can tell a simular story. So I ask you which one of the situations described is a better educational experience? Which one deserves more respect?? I believe the answer is obvious. You get out of it what you put into it.

 

Yes, but its not clear whether that is a net value and if it is, for how long? With more and more people preferring to conduct business online, people who are on the forefront of online interaction might actually have the better value in terms of education.

 

I would also like to add that people have different learning styles. I personally feel like I thrive in the online environment and that it fits my learning style much better. Other people may do better in the classroom and enjoy the face to face interaction, but in my estimation you can't really say one is better than the other. In my opinion you can only say one is better for a given individual. I also firmly believe that education is no different than any other aspect if life, you get out of it what you put into it.

When it comes to hiring decisions, I would certainly hope that I would be judged on my qualifications as a whole and not the method in which my education was delivered.

 

Your situation is common to many of us (including me). However, this is a case for pursuing higher education as an adult. Not a case for the quality or effectiveness of online education (or bias associated with such). Again, online education offers a tremendous value, convenience, and allows many professionals to return to school. None of these items alone equate to a better learning experience than classroom based programs. We all know there are fantastic online programs available. We also know there are inferior online programs. This is also true in classroom based education.

Perhaps the bias against online programs exist because of the extensive marketing efforts of a few online schools. The majority of these marketing efforts speak to ease (easy schedule, easy enrollment, etc...). I suspect if it were not for these marketing efforts, the quality of our education may be viewed differently.

 

I think in most cases, qualifications as a whole are judged. These qualifications frequently include education. How your education was delivered may be considered just as the school you attended may be considered. Not all education is created equal. This is true when comparing school to school and delivery to delivery. I personally believe ability is much more important than education or even experience. However, there are many more M & A bankers on wall street that graduated from Harvard and Yale than COSC grads (I have a BS from COSC). I'm not trying to compare the schools, just pointing out that education does come into play as a part of your "whole" package.

 

Good point. Having ads for your school sandwiched between spam for cialis, "cheap software", and online p0rn isn't exactly credibility-inspiring.

 

No, what I meant was that customers don't care either way, since they have access to team members when they need it.

As for F2F interaction, I do have F2F contact with customers and coworkers frequently, superiors occasionally. However, since our specialty is so technical and rare, there is no way we could provide our services to the whole of the market without using the talents of people across the country.

Technology is simply the tool to make this happen. My analogy was that the same acceptance of telework will help win the general public over regarding DL, over time.

 

I understand. It sounds like the telecommuting is like online learning. In general, there may not be any disadvantages (other than personal interaction) and in most cases there are no advantages other than cost and convenience.

 

Telecommuting is like online learning, it is definitely not for everyone, but it is becoming increasingly utilized. It is not for the person that requires daily face-to-face interaction with coworkers. It is most likely not for an individual that requires sitting in a classroom to become educated. It’s for a new breed of employee.

As with online learning, telecommuting requires a higher level of discipline and the ability to function independently. Telecommuting comes in many forms, from the accountant having access to financial systems remotely, to the systems or database administrator handling outsourced assignments, to the assembly of global personnel working on a software development project.

My undergraduate degrees (AAS, BS) were obtained by sitting in a classroom. The graduate certificate in IT Management (Capella) that I have completed and my MBA (Bellevue) that is in progress are online programs. With respect to the supposed advantage of face-to-face interaction in a classroom setting, I simply don’t see it. For me the majority of the time sitting in a classroom was spent listening to a lecture, taking notes, and occasional interaction between fellow students. The interaction usually occurred in the hallway during a break and the discussion was usually not relevant to the course work. In between classes there wasn’t any communication at all with fellow students.

My own personal experiences with online education are positive ones. In fact I find myself doing more work to obtain a good grade online than I ever had to do in the classroom. It is always very tempting to put off work for an online course. Attending a course at a B&M school dictates when and where you must be at a given time. I also find my fellow classmates as well as my instructors more accessible than they were during my B&M days. Is it more convenient? Yes it is, but that convenience commands a much higher level of discipline and responsibility. Several people that I work with used to be enrolled in online programs but opted to transfer to the classroom setting. No, not because of any perceived bias but because they simply didn’t command the level discipline needed to succeed. They require the hand holding provided by being face-to-face twice a week with the instructor.

 

I agree that telecommuting is very similar to online learning. It is certainly growing but is limited in scope. Both lend themselves well to hard skill jobs such as IT, accounting, etc. I think it's a stretch to call those that telecommute a "new breed of employee". I sincerely doubt more than 5% or 10% of jobs will be truly telecommuting jobs within our lifetimes.

I respectfully disagree that online learning takes any more discipline than classroom learning. Classroom learning may take more discipline. With classroom learning, a student must be at a certain place at a certain time. This is not required with most DL programs. Assignments are due each week with either delivery method and it is just as easy to procrastinate homework/reading with either program.

I'm sorry you had a negative classroom experience. Your experiences, while probably not unique, certainly are not the rule. In my experience, Regis University MBA students are highly interactive in class and outside class. In many classes, each student prepares a lesson plan and leads a class (under the supervision of the prof). This is great experience for those with aspirations of getting a faculty gig. In marketing classes presentations are made and proposals defended. These are all things that are difficult to translate in the online world. Anything that can be done online can be done in person. E-mail addresses exchanged, calls made to the prof, etc.

I think it is unfair to claim classroom based students "require the hand holding provided by being face-to-face twice a week with the instructor". "Require" is a fairly condescending term. I suspect you meant "prefer". Instructors generally don't take tests or write papers for their students. The grade is still up to the student and his/her ability to learn the material.

Classroom learning requires discipline to be in class and do the work. DL requires discipline to do the work only. I have taken classes both online and in the classroom in the same program at the same school. I really can't say I worked harder with either delivery method. In the case of Regis, texts and assignments are identical with the two delivery methods. A student needs to read the same material and write the same papers. The classroom experience just allows for more interaction, discussion, and the exchange of ideas. The only unique discipline related aspect of the two delivery methods is the requirement to be somewhere with classroom.

Caveat: My DL experience with Regis has been very positive. They have great programs and great instructors. Because of my cross-country move, I would have been forced to change schools if I wasn't able to transfer to an online program. In my case, I simply found the classroom based program more intelectually engaging.

This thread is a perfect example of one of the downsides to DL. If all of us were in the same room, this discussion (up to this point) would have taken an hour. Because of the nature of message boards (which Regis uses), this discussion has now taken several days.

 

Well, as I've stated before, your experience is unique to others. The only experience I have with DL is with AACSB schools that require a rigid schedule with rigid assignment due dates. I know I will offend many, but I personally would not choose a non AACSB school basically for this fact. Schools like UMASS, U of Indiana, Morehead, etc. have rigid standards that follow a rigid course structure. The data to date and research done so far basically all agree, no significant difference between learning outcomes and objectives--in other words, the material is learned and mastered. This thread had degenerated into what is superior, well, quite frankly the research states no real, measurable difference. Education is, and always has been a personal endeavor, you get what you put in, in reference to time and learning ability. I have also read papers that state that B&M students spend more time partying than studying, but, as I said, payout in terms of objectives is subjective. Bias exist in every aspect of life. There is degree snobbery when it comes to school selection, the same as bias towards degree format. This thread really is nothing more than a few persons opinions, and the bias or preference they hold towards learning modalities. I suppose the real answer to all these questions or positions held by all is the payoff you have from your specific degree. Other than that, wheter personal or professional, what really matters?

William

 

The only research posted in this tread was a great study done at Auburn. The study was very limited in scope and was, by the authors' own admission, not conclusive for most types of programs. If there are any other studies that you know of, please post links. I think the length of this thread shows interest in this area and I'm sure many would like to have more scientific information related to the effectiveness of DL. In fact, being armed with more info may help all of us break down biases against our chosen delivery method, if such biases exist.

 

http://www.uwex.edu/disted/conference/Resource_library/proceedings/01_48.pdf

Interesting study

http://tojde.anadolu.edu.tr/tojde10/articles/lionarakis.htm

Differing opinion

http://www.ugst.org/dlfaq.htm

http://www.distancelearningnet.com/questions/is-internet-distance-learning-superior

not superior….but equal? You decide.


Non really adress bias, but rather teaching methods and effectiveness.

William

 

In fact, you have asked over and over to show you studies that show non-bias or non-inferitiority of online degrees, so I extend the same offer, show me more than one study that shows online degreres as inferior.

William

 

I believe I only asked once for a study. Anyway, I have never contended that online delivery for education is universally inferior. Classroom based education is generally accepted as quality education. When it comes to classroom learning, there is probably little bias outside of school rankings. My intent was never to prove or claim that online learning was not valuable. If I believed there was no value, I would not be enrolled in a DL program. With that said, studies that show online education is superior to classrooom education could break down any negative biases relatively quickly. If the two delivery medthods produce the same results, I fear the constant commercials and print ads that tout easy enrollment and easy scheduling will overshadow the fact that the education is just as good.

My perception is that community colleges are viewed as "inferior" by many people. I don't know exactly why. Perhaps open enrollment, evening classes, low costs, etc. Chances are probably good that a person can receive a quality education at a community college. Yet this sub-par image exists. I may never know why...

 

Good posting, thanks...

SFC Parker

 

jtaee1920

jtaee1920, I have read all of your post and I do think you make several very good points. Now correct me if I am wrong, but basically your overall point is that there is a bias against online education and it seems that you have this bias yourself. I don't think anyone here disagrees with you that this bias exists, but I myself have not seen any evidence to support such a bias.