Are online degrees getting the respect they deserve?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by nobycane, Dec 21, 2005.

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  1. gasbag

    gasbag New Member

    The poster doth protest too much, methinks. Same for the SuperModerator
     
  2. JoAnnP38

    JoAnnP38 Member

    So, does this mean you think Harvard would be a better school if they had open admissions standards? Not I. As always, I think Andy is dead on with his assertion. I'm not saying that all DL programs need to be competititve, but none of them can be considered "prestigious" or top-notch until they do. I think jumping the admissions hurdle is almost as important as completing the degree itself. The last statistics that I looked at showed that the University of Florida only admitted 10% of applicants into its graduate engineering programs. As a student I feel this is working just swell. If tasked with a group project I feel very confident that there will be a full boat of rowers. Can you say the same about UoP? Countless posts on this forum speak of the problems group projects encounter because of different levels of preparedness or drive of members. Institutions owe it to their students to create a highly motivating environment. Letting anyone who can breath into the program simply doesn't accomplish this.

    BTW, have a happy (a. Christmas, b. Hanukkah, c. Kwanzaa, d. holiday season) choose one :D (or two, or three, ...)
     
  3. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Go back and read the Terms of Service that you agreed to when you registered. If you can not adhere to them then you are welcome to post elsewhere. If you deliberately get in my face on this issue then you will lose the right to make that decision.
    Jack
     
  4. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    So if the admissions process is what will determine an academically superior school...what about those schools who admit the family members of wealthy and charitable alumni?

    I think the cream will rise to the top of almost any school, but a strict academic admissions process will generally generate better graduates....but then, who bases admissions simply on academics?
     
  5. gasbag

    gasbag New Member

    Jack -- please disable my registration. I note that you have over 3000 posts here. This forum is an insult to legitimate education, and a land of makebelieve for the mediocre. Turn in your SuperModerator badge and costume. Get a real life, and please, get a new face that's not so easily offended.
     
  6. Susanna

    Susanna New Member

    Agreed! I am not a cheerleader for UoP but I will contend in their favor that they provide the tools necessary to reach the desired learning outcomes. What I experienced at UoP was not a dumb'ing down but rather a 'weeding' process; some dropped and some fell behind and barely passed (which dropped a little while later). Should they have been admitted? Probably not!
    Susanna
     
  7. Susanna

    Susanna New Member

    You live up to your name, gasbag!!!
    Don't let the door hit you on your way out :D
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Only 26 posts in and this? Sigh.

    We're seeing a lot of this lately from newbies.
     
  9. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    Admissions standards are one determinant of outgoing quality. It only stands to reason that if you start with bright people, you're more likely to graduate solid grads. Two or four years of college education can't totally overcome flawed K-12 work. Are there exceptions? Sure enough. But on average, I'll stand with my statement.

    As for wealthy alumni - this constitutes only 10-15% of admitted students in the ivy league schools. Further, these students still have to complete coursework at one of the best universities in the world. It may bother those of us that aren't wealthy, but it hardly negates the strength of these institutions.

    Regards - Andy


     
  10. Tim D

    Tim D Member

    Accepting all is a noble idea but you need to have the infrastructure in place to handle those students who need remedial work. I have seen many community colleges that have been very good at this type of thing. The issue is with a school like UoP if they want the admissions (and we all know they do) then they are going to have to offer these classes or it can get very ugly in university level course work. The other problem is that if a student enrolls in UoP and has to take a semester worth of remedial courses before they attend at UoP prices I can see where it may cause issues. Not to mention that even the people generally who need the remedial help don't want it, so this makes it more difficult for UoP because they want the enrollment.
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    JoAnn, please re-read what I wrote. I specifically stated that UoP was problematic because of its open admissions policies.

    What I said was that I'm in favor of admitting all who qualify at a school, all that meet the school's entry requirements. "As long as admissions standards are sufficiently high enough...." is what I said. Harvard can have higher standards, but ought to try to admit all students who meet those standards. (It is a fight against exclusivity, not high admissions standards.)

    As for the "full boat of rowers" problem with UoP learning teams, I addressed that, too, when I said that I thought some UoP classes get "dumbed down" because of unqualified students.

    You're arguing against points I didn't make. We agree.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    And I think UoP should be ashamed of admitting unqualified students. It does a diservice to them. When students enter a degree program, they make a strong commitment in terms of dollars, time, family, and even putting their self-esteem on the line. Admitting people doomed to fail is setting them up in all of those areas.

    Here's a tidbit: How many classes does a student have to take before UoP breaks even on him/her? Take into account the costs of recruiting a student, the administrative load of admissions and processing, the marginal cost of adding a student to a class, etc. The break-even point? THREE COURSES! That's it. If a student stays for the 4th course, UoP is in the black on him/her.

    There is a strong financial incentive to admit unqualified students. It often takes many more courses than that before unqualified students are weeded out. That's also about the length of time a student has to stay for his/her admission to "count" for the recruiter. Uh, er, I mean "admissions counselor." They're not paid a commission, but their bonuses and in-place promotions (just like a raise: same duties, more money) are driven by their productivity.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I didn't talk about remediating unqualified students, which UoP doesn't do. I was just saying that I'd like to see universities set standards and then admit students who meet them.
     
  14. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Wouldn't it make more sense to admit almost anyone...but NOT lower the academic standard, thus weeding out anyone not qualified? It would appear less exclusive and you never know where talent will come from....

    Edited to add....I understand Rich's point....and I don't disagree....but for the sake of argument, I don't necessarily mean "unqualified" per se. For instance, my AS from Ashworth was not acceptable to most colleges that were RA for admittance into their program. I was accepted into Southwestern, which has proven itself fairly rigorous, yet I am still making straight A's (with one "B"...but that's the exception). I feel I could have made it in any of their programs given a chance, but I was denied admittance because of my lack of "qualifications"....(read, accreditation).

    It was a crock, they knew it, I knew it.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2005
  15. Tim D

    Tim D Member

    I realize you didn’t talk about remediation; I was putting the carriage after the horse.To me it only seems like the logical step if you are going to admit an unqualified person is to remediate them to get them "up to speed" if you will. If you are not remediating students and accepting all, you are essentially asking for a bad reputation! How fair is it to admit someone unqualified and then not give them the tools for success? If you don’t want to offer those classes then don’t accept the students it’s the only responsible thing to do. As you so eloquently point out there is very little incentive to do so in the for-profit model.
     
  16. JoAnnP38

    JoAnnP38 Member

    You're right! We both agree that I didn't read your original post very well. :(
     
  17. Susanna

    Susanna New Member

    Shall I get the violin? You might be suprised to learn that many of those students you claim "make a strong commitment" are only out to get a free ride (by that I mean no effort) toward a quick degree. Where is the student's responsibility in your rationale?
     
  18. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Just so there's no misunderstanding...

    There is no real way to disable someone's registration. I suppose that I could ban gasbag but the fact is the he hasn't done anything nasty enough to warrant such action. As it is, gasbag has full privileges and I have no problem with him exercising those privileges as long as he does so within the TOS.
    If gasbag decides to voluntarily leave this forum then that is also his privilege. At the time of this writing, he is free to resume his membership anytime he is willing to post within the TOS.
    I hope he does.
    Jack
     
  19. drummond

    drummond New Member

    It really comes down to this; times change, but people not qute so fast.

    Since I am preparing to go after my MBA, I took the trouble to ask some people in my network about whether they would hire someone with an online degree, and also whether they would promote them.

    The good news, is that for openings the people who hire professionals see nothing wrong with an online degree. The bad news, is I could not find a single person who makes significant promotion decisions, who believed that an online degree was the equal of a "traditional" MBA, even from the same school. An online degree will get you in the door, but not up the stairs. There is, sad to say, a very real "glass ceiling" effect from having an online advanced degree.

    You don't have to like it folks, but you'd better know the bias is there. Maybe in ten years or fifteen that will fade, but for here and now, whether your classes on online or in a classroom does factor into whether or not you will be considered for higher management in many companies.
     
  20. Tim D

    Tim D Member

    The question is all things being equal if you attend a DL school that is an established B&M school how are they going to know where you went. For example if I attend Mississippi State University, their MBA is the same for students who take online or B&M courses. The Transcrpits,courses and everything read exactly the same unless you differentiate the degree how are they going to know? If you go to Capella,NCU or the likes then it will be more obvious.

    On the other hand your advice is something that is hard to swollow but alot of us here understand the current bias we are facing.
     

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