Approved State Schools

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by bikerseven2003, Oct 21, 2004.

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  1. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Hello all.

    Been a while since I have checked in. We all need to do a writing campaign to the feds about all of these diploma mills and substandard schools. I did get sucked into one and found out too late so I could not recoupe my money. So I chaulked it up to a lesson well learned. The school really put on a good front. I was impressed. But I started asking questions about the way the university verified previous degrees, portfolios and etc. I got the biggest side steppin' answers that any one has probably ever heard. I demanded my money back but was unsuccessful. I have supplied the Wyoming Department of Education quite a few items that may help them close this bogus place down. I am considering filing a complaint or case against this "unversity" becasue it was a deception. I do have a BA and MA from RA's universities. In the past, I have taken courses with Southern California University for Professional Studies. There course objectives and goals and course content/requirements are very rigourous. Comparable to my master's program I completed.

    I realize that SCUPS is not a RA accredited school, but it is approved through California's Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education. I have researched the legislation and standards that schools have to meet and I am comfortable with them being a quality education. I know the that four courses I completed with SCUPS in 2000 and 2001 were very well done. And SCUPS does not grant life experience learning.

    I am reapplying for the Psy D program with SCUPS. But, before I send my money in, could anyone share any information with me about this university's standing? I know Oregon does recognize SCUPS' degrees for employment in that state. That is at least a good sign. I am also in the application review phase of getting into UNC Chapel Hill Public Management program. Have my fingers crossed.

    The only degrees that North Carolina will accept for State Employment are from Regionally Accredited Schools. I hate this state is doing this because there are quality schools out there that are not accredited. I hate all of those danged diploma mills. They have made it really bad for the rest of us.

    And guys---thanks for the info on Breyer State University. I do believe that I saw something about a news crew going to a private home and the person who answered the door said it was Breyer State University. How in the h$%* can places like this continue to operate?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2004
  2. Rob Coates

    Rob Coates New Member

    If I'm not mistaken, only the Ph.D. from SCUPS is acceptable for use in OR.
     
  3. JNelson467

    JNelson467 New Member

    I have also looked into SCUps as well and can say that I feel that they are overpriced in regards to only being State Approved. Although, from my discussion with their university, they have made changes to their programs and other key elements when they were seeking accreditation thru DETC. Now, what i was informed is that they were required to make too many changes in a short period of time to even meet the accreditation requirements and in doing so, dropping their Doctoral programs would also hurt them financially. They are affiliated with North Central University, which is RA.

    Nevertheless, a different market they are seeking to capture. I still feel they should have dropped their tuition, which they increased in hopes of being DETC accredited.

    Breyer State University granted me a masters degree in less than 4 days on PLA. ( Degree Shill!!!)

    no, I did not get sucked into that one. I at least want to earn it thru testing or coursework So I can feel even more proud of my accomplishment.
     
  4. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    new diploma mill on the site

    Richardson University, LLC (limited liability corporation) incorporated in the Bahamas but using the 100 Bear River Drive Evanston, WY address as their "central repository". Of course, this "institution" is associated with FION>

    I sent in made up names with education and work experiences to the arrc site on the web. Academic resource and referral center. I got invitiation for enrollment to programs for a BS, MS and PHD all at one time. In little as 30 days or as long as two years. any of you go to this site and fill in the information. it's free. I bet you get an invitation to enroll from richardson university, or some other university associated with FION. Richardson U's Invitation to Enroll booklets were almost exactly the same as other booklets from FION associated schools. I believe that the arrc is connected to the FION organization. I hope this organization gets what is coming to it. and soon.
     
  5. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    SCUPS

    Thanks Rob

    I reviewed Oregon's list. I read it as if all the programs with the exception of the Ph D is accepted. I am a little confused. But no problem. I will switch my degree program to the PHD for a fee.

    **************************************************

    here is a letter I have mailed out to all of the senators who are on the education committee in Washington. Hope it at least get them to do something. I have mailed at least 16 and plan to do more each week.

    October 18, 2004

    RE: Higher Education Act

    Honorable
    476 Russell Senate Office Building
    Washington, DC 20510



    Honorable :

    I am writing about my concerns with our nation’s problems of substandard postsecondary education schools and diploma mills. As you are aware, there is a huge problem with substandard schools and diploma mills operating within some of our states. These types of schools undermine the creditability of the legitimate colleges and universities providing a sound education via the internet. Those substandard schools and diploma mills have created a significant stumbling block for those individuals who have chosen to pursue their college education at nontraditional universities that are legitimate and that do not choose to be accredited by an accreditation agency recognized by the U. S. Department of Education (USDOE). Accreditation by a Regional Accreditation agency costs millions of dollars for a school to become accredited. Many small and medium private colleges and universities can’t afford these high costs. If these schools chose to become accredited, they would have to pass the cost of the accreditation on to the students.

    Regional Accreditation agencies do not accredit colleges and universities that offer a totally online education. This type of education has opened up the opportunity for any one of us any where in the United States to have access to a higher education. However, many states are now requiring that all degrees an applicant has be from an institution that is accredited by an agency recognized by the USDOE. This is totally unfair to the middle and lower class citizens of this country.

    The USDOE has no standards established and outsources what I believe should be that Department’s responsibility to the tax paying citizens of the United States. That Responsibility is to assure quality standards of higher education for every college and university operating in each of our 50 states.

    Despite what the USDOE says that it does not accredit colleges and universities, I beg the difference. Schools are strong armed into accreditation by one of their “recognized” accrediting agencies. If a school is not accredited with one of these agencies then it is deemed substandard or a diploma mill. If the USDOE assumes the role of recognizing and not recognizing accreditation agencies, then in fact they are at the top of the chain in the accreditation organization. “A rose by another name is still a rose.” If a school is not accredited by one of the USDOE recognized agencies, then the schools are substandard and not worthy of federal programs. Why is the USDOE outsourcing its responsibility to ensure that all schools that wish to participate in federal programs to the RA’s, and other of their recognized agencies? I have the opinion that the states should be responsible for ensuring that all colleges and universities operating within their borders meet a minimal standard that is acceptable across all states. I am not saying that all schools will have the same reputation. There will be the excellent schools and the good schools. Just as there is now.

    There needs to be oversight by the federal government that there is a fair and equal playing field for small private universities as well as the large public universities. It is unpalatable that state governments are having to put up lists of what schools are credible and which schools are not for employment purposes. No school of higher learning operating in this country [USA] should be providing a substandard education that cannot be used to better one’s self. This would also help those learners who are not aware of such substandard schools getting caught in the trap of wasting their hard earned money on worthless degrees. North Carolina Office of State Personnel has banned all degrees for consideration of position if the degree is not from an accrediting agency recognized by the USDOE. Because of a handful of bad apples, all degrees that are legitimate and duly earned are not worth anything to help a person advance in his or her career.

    I would like to see the Federal Government pass a law that requires each state to license and approve every university operating within its borders. i.e., The systems of postsecondary education in place in Californian and New York. This would weed out the diploma mills and substandard schools. The standards that should be required by each state be set by the USDOE and this would ensure that a degree in New Mexico is as good as one in New York.

    Many of us working professionals cannot afford the tuitions of the large state operated universities and not all of us are close to an university or college that offers the courses and/or degree we need at a time we can go to class.

    Online learning is wonderful. It gives everyone an equal chance for an education in this country. Not all of us have the time or fortunate enough to be located near a postsecondary school to attend classes. Private online universities offer us an alternative. But in order for it to work, the USDOE and the federal government is going to have to take a stand. Just set minimum standards for what can be considered a degree. While I understand the point about the fear of setting standards too low, I can only surmise that it would raise the bar for many states, like Wyoming among others. And if the Federal government would make it a crime to sell bogus unlicensed “degrees”, I tend to think that might keep the e-commerce raiders at bay. [It worked for cherry bombs didn’t it?]

    If the Federal government can regulate highway safety issues like taillights, interstate road design, and the shape of a stop sign, the establishment of a few definitions regarding an interstate legal degree shouldn’t be that onerous. If they can’t do that, maybe they should just remove the language about accreditation being voluntary.





    Respectfully,



    Robert
     
  6. JNelson467

    JNelson467 New Member

    Just another addition to the " dirty dozen" or make it a bakers dozen.

    Breyer State's name was probably taken after Judge Breyer, who has no affiliation, but adds creditability to the name during a Google search). Too bad.. Its definitely is a nice name for a school.
     
  7. JNelson467

    JNelson467 New Member

    Re: SCUPS

     
  8. JNelson467

    JNelson467 New Member

    Re: SCUPS

    Here is a example as I mentioned above that is RA and a virtual online no campus university.

    www.jonesinternational.edu

    just one of a few I recall.
     
  9. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Hello Jaynelson

    Thanks for the info. Previously when I was enrolled with SCUPS, 2000-2001 the courses were very rigorous. They were right up there with the top universities. I worked my [email protected]# off many of nights trying to get the required work completed on time. The professors were very helpful and eager to help. They even had me join class room chat groups with other students.

    I had to drop out of the psy d program due to family problems. After that had resolved, I contacted SCUPS to reapply for admission to the Psy D program. They were no longer offering the doctorate level degrees. They have just started offering the doctorates again this past July. There are some changes to that program that are very clinical in nature. I wished that SCUPS would go on and get accredited with DETC. the DETC has been given the go ahead to approve schools to offer doctorate degrees. SCUPS now requires protored comprehensive exams. And they do check your references, will not enroll you if you do not provide transcripts directly from the other schools themselves. SCUPS has quality. I really like the school. There tutition is not too too expensive. At least I will not have to mortgage my house to go back to school or take out a student loan for 50 or more thousands of dollars.
     
  10. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    JNELSON

    Thanks

    I think I will buy one of John's books. What the best one to buy? IS the University of Pheonix totally online? I have applied there and was accepted into the Health Care Administration Degree at the doctorate level. But, I had to travel to Pheonix ever so often for 3 weeks at a time. I don't have that much vacation time to do that or the funds for the airfare. I am not a wealthy person by any means. After the bills, buying food, car payments, house payment, taxes, buying clothes for the family, gas bills, keeping up 10 acres with all of my gritters (ducks, chickens, geese, etc.) not to mention working 50 hours a week at a state hospital that I have to travel 45 miles to get to.
     
  11. JNelson467

    JNelson467 New Member

    Re: Hello Jaynelson

    When did this happen.? I havent heard that they are accrediting Doctoral programs, except of I believe UNISA and another foreign school that already offers them.

    Please share the info on this if you can.

    i know that their are many schools awaiting for DETC to offer the doctoral programs, but I wasnt aware that they have done so.

    thanks

    Jonathan

    PS: I agree that SCUps programs are still much lower than other RA's like CTU at about 60k+, etc.

    My comparison is apples to apples in a sense. California State Approved.

    CPU is about $5600 +dissertation fee of I believe $1000 & books etc. california approved ph.D in management

    SCU is about $13k + books & I believe $2700 dissertation. Could be wrong, but close. On a Psyc phd, their may be no lower cost options State approved. Nevertheless, SCUps has been around awhile and I know that you have done alot of real work thru them.
     
  12. JNelson467

    JNelson467 New Member

    Re: JNELSON

    If you are intersted still in a State Approved California degree and it will meet your future needs, then check into CPU as they have a Healthcare MBA and I believe may offer a PhD as well. For a low cost tuition and no residency.

    However, I would really seek a RA, but a DETC seems to be well accepted.

    University of Phoenix is a RA school and suprises me from you being in North Carolina that they dont have at least 4 or 5 actual schools in your neighborhood. They are everywhere in Denver, even next to my work. They are like a wal-Mart of universities. Their everywhere.
    In regards again to your statement, Do not pay for bricks and mortar if you are not going to use them. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is that Distance learning costs are almost as much as attending on campus, just less headache etc.
     
  13. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    "I think I will buy one of John's books. What the best one to buy?..."

    -----

    Well the only relevant one is Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees by Distance Learning, 15th ed. It's a bit long of tooth now, having been out 22 months. I'm done doing these, but daughter Mariah is working on the 16th, probably out next spring.

    Meanwhile, I see Amazon has used 15ths for $13 . . . and many libraries have them, too.

    John Bear
     
  14. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Re: Re: Hello Jaynelson

    DETC published its Proposed Policy on Doctoral Degree Programs back in July 2004:
    www.detc.org/downloads/ FINAL%20Policy%20on%20Doctoral%20Degree%20Programs%20-%20June%2020.pdf
     
  15. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    JNelson

    Thanks for your reply.

    The closest university to me is ECU. I received my Master's there. They do not offer a Doctorate in the field I am seeking it in. UNC Chapel is tough to get into. The competition is something else. I have applied for the certificate program and the PHD there in Public Health Administration. If accepted into the PhD program, I will have to quit my position with the hospital to attend classes. I will have to do some serious thinking about that. But, I don't think I could do that. Again, with a family and other financial responsibilities, I have to have an income to support us. Having a 12 year old is not cheap. I also have to put money aside for her education. UNC - Chapel is two hours away from me. That is quite a commute. The certificate program is online. Duke is completely out of the question. I cannot afford the tuition. Hands down. And I make too much to qualify for financial aid and don't want to go into substantial debt. That is a no can do with my other financial obligations.

    North Carolina State Government, as I have stated previously will only, at the current time, accept degrees from RA universities. I am hoping that this will change and the State will verify schools as does Oregon and Michigan.

    I have heard some 'not so high opinions' about CPU. SCUPS will cost around 10k not including additional fees for other academic items. They offer a reasonable tuition payment plan that I can do without too much pain.

    Robert
     
  16. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    John Bear

    John,

    You are a highly respected individual in the education field. I have heard lots of good things about you and have read news articles about you too.

    What are your thoughts on SCUPS located in California?

    I have taken courses with SCUPS two years ago. The courses were rigorous and in my opinion, top notch.

    Thanks in advance for any info you can or will give.

    Robert
     
  17. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    JNelson

    Forgot to respond about the DETC accrediting doctorate programs. The DETC submitted its proposal in July 04. I read there proposal and it has been approved.

    The DETC will initially approve only those universities already accredited with them for doctoral degrees. I think the standards are eligible universities for this accreditation are the ones that have been accredited with the DETC for the past two years.

    I found the information on the DETC webpage.
     
  18. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Re: SCUPS

    Yes they do: there are several RA institutions that offer totally on-line or DL degrees including Excelsior, COSC, and Northcentral University.
     
  19. grgrwll

    grgrwll New Member

    Re: SCUPS

    It won't. They will never read it. In fact, no one in their office will read it.

    Here's what happens. When a letter comes in to a member's office, an admin assistant, or more likely an intern, checks the return address. If it's not from their district (Representatives) or state (Senators) it is forwarded to the appropriate member who represents you.

    The people on these committees don't give a damn what you think (you can't vote for or against them.) Moreover, they barely give a damn what their own constituents think because they know that most people base their vote on "personality" or "feeling" rather than policy. (By the way, if you do get a reply from a committee member who does not represent you, it's a good indication that that person is using taxpayer dollars to lay the groundwork for their Presidential campaign at some time in the future.)

    And to make matters worse, your letter is blatantly wrong. As others have pointed out, it is simply not true that RA accreditors don't accredit fully DL institutions (except for SACS, but that's a whole other story.)

    Anyway, if you really want to make a difference, set up an appointment to talk to your Senators and your Representative about this IN PERSON.

    This might sound crazy, but if you are persistent, in about 90% of cases you can actually set up a meeting.

    And if you do, you need to explain exactly how this affects THEIR CONSTIUENTS. That is ALL that they care about.

    As for SCUPS, I have heard generally positive things (at least compared to other unaccredited schools), but I can't imagine why anyone would choose them when there are SO MANY accredited DL programs these days.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2004
  20. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Ian

    Thanks Ian. I will look into those universities you listed that are accredited by one of the RA's. Was not aware of that. I have tried to read all of the standards set forth in the RA's. The ones I did read stated that do not accredit totally DL schools but did the traditional schools that have DL programs. I will amend my letter. Thanks for the info.

    There are many accredited schools offering Master's but I am wanting to pursue a doctorate in health administration or public health administration as my #1 choice or complete a doctorate in psychology. My problem is the #1 the cost of some of the schools, #2 the proximity and residential requirents of the schools (I can't afford too much more debt and stay afloat if you know what I mean) and #3 finding an accredited (RA) doctorate program that I am interested in.

    I really appreciate everyone's help.
     

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