Another Online Degree Mill.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by thequietman, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. thequietman

    thequietman Member

    Link Removed By Moderator

    I know their is a reputable NM uni in the states and it seems this one is trying to ride on the back of that. If you don't see the discipline you want, send them an email amd they will create it. Now, that's what I call good service. :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2017
  2. thequietman

    thequietman Member

    Apologies for putting the link moderators. The name of the establishment is NELSON MANDELA UNIVERSITY, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I hope it is allowed to put the name.
  3. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Thanks for the 'find', TQM. It's an unusual website: huge amount of text. Unusually, for such places, names and affiliations are provided for some of the people (including a Nigerian 'Prince') , and, unique in my experience, the name of their "attorneys and legal counsel" -- Spiegel and Utrera, P.A. (USA). (The law firm website suggests they are in the business of helping to set up and maintain corporations.)

    Among the red flags are
    * Validation of degrees by Apostile
    * Absence of any physical address
    * Accreditation by GVFASAEAS, the Global Varsity For Applied Scholastics And Education Accreditation Syndicate
    Michael Burgos likes this.
  4. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    NMU is not so much in the US as in India.

    NMU has a sibling called PDMF University USA - the world's first free university on the internet, as they put it - which is an affiliate of the International University of Fundamental Studies, Russia.

    www dot pdmfuniversity dot edu dot in/pages/about dot html
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Kim Jong-un could get quite a discount! One-year "fast-track" degrees, nominate-yourself-honorary degrees. There's a "suggested donation" for the diploma - $500 or so, in fully-developed countries, less in others. DPRK fits in the lowest-cost category - C.

  6. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    What a website! Does not look like it was put together by an ordered mind. Of course, it probably wasn't.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I wasn't nearly as eloquent, but that was about how I felt when I first saw the ill-fated "Trump University" site, a while back. :smile:

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2017
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    We don't see as many of these as it used to be. Nowadays, it is very easy to go online and verify that the degree is a mill.

    The other issue is price, many schools like the University of Sedona have made unaccredited but legal very affordable so the unaccredited mill is almost obsolete. A degree mill might go down next week and most likely can be spotted as such in a minute with a google search so any money invested is most likely a loss.

    This kind of scams were very lucrative in the 90s, I remember getting emails almost everyday about degree mills but not much nowadays.
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    For US it is. By "us" I mean people like you, me and other DI people, who have made themselves knowledgeable about degrees - the genuine and the milled. There are many corners of the world where the unsuspecting - or desperate - can be duped out of whatever money they have, or can raise. And among experienced, savvy people, there are many who know exactly what they're getting into and knowingly buy zero-quality degrees, figuring, all too often rightly, that there are potential employers, clients and/or (God forbid!) PATIENTS who won't know their credentials are crooked.

    I think we see even more thoroughly bogus schools than we used to, these days. Consider the fact that one organization alone um... "invented" about 300 schools, more or less! We have experts in the field, here on the forum - and they're coming up with the new "schools" on a very frequent basis. Even I, in my dotage, manage to come up with the odd one. Check the "unaccredited" section.

    IIRC, you once mentioned herein that you have three degrees from Sedona - Bachelor's Master's and Doctorate, earned over a period of six months. Schools like the University of Sedona, managing to capitalize on "legality," don't poach much business from the "others." Their "legality" prevents them from granting degrees in anything but a narrow range of subjects. A host of popular ones are off-limits; business, tech, IT, Arts, etc. The "mills" (your term) don't observe that nicety. Very few exclusions. Degrees in practically everything. Nowadays, "schools" don't have to email you, although they sometimes do. People fish for them on the internet, instead of the reverse.

    "S#!t don't change.
    S#!t stay the same."

    -DMX, with Snoop Dogg.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2017
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    My degrees are not from UoS but another similar school. Yes, I completed in 6 months but perhaps I am not the average learner as also have another six accredited degrees from different schools in Canada, UK and the US and few were earned in shorter than average times. Once you become a professional student, you learn to absorbe material in short periods of time and to be efficient in learning.

    Bottom line is that you can use the title PhD legally with a religious exempt doctorate degree while you cannot use the same title if earned from an unaccredited school without legal authority to grant degrees. In Florida for example, it is a crime to use an unaccredited PhD but you can legally use a PhD from a religious exempt school.

    By the way, UoS grants degrees in subjects that can be use in the non secular world such as MBAs, DPSy, etc.

    Many people that work as counselors or life coaches in Canada get the UoS degree or another Metaphysics degrees. Good enough to get insurance in some provinces, something that you might not get with a fake school.

    There is some utility with fast track unaccredited but legal PhDs in religious subjects if you want to work as a minister, life coach or spiritual counselor. I agree that this is a tiny market but there is some utility. Most people complete these programs in one year, if these programs were 5 year programs as the regular PhDs, nobody would do them as the return of investment of being a minister or spiritual counselor is not worth time and money.
    By the way, most Canadian schools offering programs in spiritual counseling or life coach are one year non degree programs that are enough to get you insurance. In few words, the PhD from UoS or diploma in spiritual counseling from a private school are equivalent in effort just that the UoS degree gives you the fancy title but your salary will not increase as most counselors are self employed and charge similar rates independently of the degree.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2017
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I forgot to mention that I considered at one point in my life becoming a certified counselor, I sent my metaphysics transcripts (specialization in counseling) to two counseling associations in Canada and was accepted but at the end decided not to register because insurance and membership was going to be more than thousand a year for just something that I consider a hobby.

    This just to show that there is some value for the unaccredited but legit degrees.
    I don't think the association would have accepted a complete fake school that just offered purchased degrees.
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I hope the foregoing wasn't a "wind old Johann up - it's fun to see how he gets" post. Oh well - here goes anyway. :smile:

    I'm a bit surprised by that statement. Since when is counselling live human beings on important aspects of their lives considered a hobby? If you're looking for a hobby, may I suggest the ukulele. It's rewarding and will last a lifetime! And if you screw up, it doesn't matter. No harm done.

    I have nothing against you personally, but it doesn't show me that. Just because your unaccredited doctorate-in-less-than-a-year found acceptance (where, as I see it, it shouldn't have) doesn't make it worth anything, to me. That's just my opinion, which, as we both realize, counts for squat.

    Aw! C'mon! Let's give it a try - I know this guy at Axact... :smile: Seriously, your word is good enough for me, but I'm still in shock. Usually, Canadians whose job it is to assess degrees, fidget and look askance at NA degrees, e.g. DEAC. Yet here, a (presumably) professional organization OK'd a quickie unaccredited "doctorate" for entry into an extremely exacting and important field? WOW!

    Excuse me, RFValve, but I have to sign off now. I'm still "reelin' with the feelin." Good luck with brain surgery, criminal law or wherever else your unaccredited Metaphysics degree will take you.

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2017
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your support. By the way, you missed the point, there is no need for a degree to enter in pastoral counseling or ministry in Canada. Either you do a quickie PhD or one year certificate at a private school, the result is that you can get insurance that it is all your need. I was required to send my transcripts to the insurance company and to the association, and there were fine with the quickie metaphysics degree because all they need to see is that you have the equivalent of one year of training in the area regardless of the academic status of the diploma.
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'll take your word. As I see it, counselling is counselling - a serious endeavour. An appropriate degree should be needed - a GOOD one. Ministry? Well, I'll go with whatever RAM PhD - or maybe Dr. Levicoff - says. Personally, I have no horse in that race.

  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    "They" (the certifying authority) get to completely disregard the academic status of the diploma? So much for quality in counselling ... me scared!

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2017
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Counseling is a very broad field, career counseling is regulated in many provinces while other counseling areas such as spiritual or pastoral counseling are normally subject to religious exemptions that normally require just a church affiliation as an ordained minister.

    This is a free country, if you are happy to see a counselor that counsels you as jewish, Jehova witness, etc that is your choice. If you think this is scary, you don't have to hire a pastoral counselor period.

    This is part of the freedom of religion. The bottom line is that churches in the US can grant titles that are only valid within the religious context. If a church wants to give me a Doctorate because my ordained credential, that is their choice and I can use this credential within the religious context as a spiritual or pastoral counselor for a metaphysical church. If an individual believes in metaphysics and wants to hire a metaphysical counselor, who are you to stop this individual?. There is nothing scary about this but your own bias against religious freedom.

    This type of credentials have no meaning in the secular world, If I put in my resume that I was granted a doctorate by the church of metaphysics is irrelevant to my job as an IT manager or programmer. I could put this credential if I want in my resume but the employer most likely will ignore it when making a decision to hire me or not.

    My point is that there is a difference between a degree mill that is purchased from a place with no degree granting authority or a religious degree that was earned perhaps with no so much extraordinary effort such as a PhD in Physics but valid within the context that was intended.
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    They have no meaning whatsoever in Canada. Here, religious organizations cannot award degrees, unless they qualify as colleges/universities must, under the appropriate Provincial legislation. They can issue all the certificates / diplomas they want, but no degrees whatsoever, unless qualified. And Canada has some very fine religious schools that are qualified to award degrees.

    It distresses me that these quickie "degrees" from schools on the other side of the border meet any kind of acceptance at all, when they cannot be awarded by similar organizations in Canada.There's no exemption from standards, lessening or absence of quality etc. for religious degree-granting, so there shouldn't be any latitude for "religious-exempt" degrees from another country.

    It's completely wrong. Justin should build a wall just to keep these "degrees" out - and make Trump pay for it! :laugh:

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2017
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry - I wrote too quickly. That's supposed to be "They should have no meaning whatsoever in Canada." And I still think that no type of counselling is a "hobby," any more than medicine (of any nature) is. Again, I recommend the ukulele. It's not abnormal for a musician to be under- or miseducated. Quite a few of my favourites could not read a newspaper or, sadly, a recording contract. But a counsellor or "natural healer" with a substandard "degree" - or less - well, that person could do real damage. Shouldn't happen - but it does. And people go on defending these "degrees."

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2017
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - there is a difference, all right. One you can get by return mail. The other takes a few months or up to a year, perhaps. That's about it, as I see it. And "legality" protects the issuer, somewhat. Not necessarily the recipient.

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2017
  20. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Good point!

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