An Interesting Juxtaposition

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Michael Burgos, Jan 31, 2022.

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  1. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Active Member

    Due to significant financial instability, Claremont School of Theology (a 137 year old institution broadly affiliated with Methodism) is being absorbed into a non-profit educational consortium. Meanwhile, some evangelical institutions have seen record enrollments (see here and here).
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Enrollments aren't the only measure of health. For example, National University was the 2nd-largest private university in California when it was pushed to the brink of insolvency. Their accreditation was put on probation. They had to oust their founder, Dave Chigos. And they were forced to sell-off a great number of properties they'd purchased around San Diego County (and to relocate). They came through it all and retain their status as the 2nd-largest (in terms of enrollments) private university in the state.

    We don't really know the complexities of their financial situation. A quick glance at the article didn't seem to reveal much along those lines?
     
  3. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    There is a multidenominational, but nominally Methodist, seminary near Rochester. They train clergy for something like two dozen denominations plus anyone else who wants to come and study there. It looks interesting. I would definitely consider it just because I think it would be cool to study all of the forbidden theology that we weren't allowed when I was in Catholic school.

    That said, it's something like $50k for the M.Div. I guess that's a bargain compared to, say, Harvard which can run you six figures.

    Compare to $3,000 a semester for the M.Div. at Regent. Or a total of something like $20k at Liberty. Or potentially comfortably in the low four figure range at Nations.

    The evangelicals have a ton of options and they range in price from bargain bin to...not cheap. They also draw from a much broader pool of students. There are many more hoping to become evangelical ministers than African Methodist Episcopal ministers or Unitarian Universalist ministers. And they have a very different focus on what they intend to study and what sort of ministry they hope to carry on.

    So in a way it isn't really fair to compare the two. It's a bit like pointing at the two year post-graduation outcomes of a community college's HVAC program versus its philosophy program. The former is much more likely to put students right to work while the latter is much more likely to transfer students to four year programs and thus have either no, or very low, earnings.

    It's an interesting observation but I would be careful in what I extrapolate from it.
     
  4. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    In 'general', liberal denominations are dying and their seminaries have had issues with viability. This has resulted in consolidations and closures for venerable institutions. On the other hand, many (but not all) conservative theological seminaries are thriving. For example, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

    This is not universally true as Tennessee Temple University merged after years of shrinking enrollment and deteriorating infrastructure. Bob Jones University was shrinking for a while but I believe has experienced growth. Oral Roberts University has rebounded from neglect under the previous administration thanks to the careful guidance of the Green family (Hobby Lobby).

    In other words, some generalities do exist but it is more complicated than liberal vs conservative.
    Seminaries are having to retool. Is a 90 credit hour MDiv really viable at an expensive institution when the job market and financial compensation are tight?
     
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    It's also worth noting that a good many evangelical churches do not have the same M.Div. or bust rule. There are clergy with Non-M.Div. Masters in theology, religious ed etc who are doing just fine without the full 90 credits.

    If you're going for something with that many credits required I, personally, think it should get paired in a joint degree program with something like an MSW or even an MPA. Or maybe make it more the norm that the M.Div. can be license eligible for an LMHC license if you focus studies on, say, pastoral counseling. Something to add more economic return to the degree. Maybe even something to encourage bivocational clergy so that some of the more struggling denominations don't force a person to choose a path with a very uncertain future to the detriment of all other careers.
     

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