America First Caucus Policy Platform

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Stanislav, Apr 19, 2021.

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  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This thing came up:
    America First Caucus Policy Platform FINAL (punchbowl.news)

    Yes, this is something even authors have to backpedal from. But, seriously, is there any doubt the document merely use a bullhorn to make points "mainstream GOP" dog-whistles to the base? In particular, Trump base?

    My favorite part is, of course, Immigration:
    "The America First Caucus recognizes that our country is more than a mass of consumers or a series of abstract ideas. America is a nation with a border, and a culture, strengthened by a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions. History has shown that societal trust and political unity are threatened when foreign citizens are imported en-masse into a country, particularly without institutional support for assimilation and an expansive welfare state to bail them out should they fail to contribute positively to the country. While certain economicand financial interest groups benefit immensely from mass immigration, legal as well as illegal, and the aggregate output of the country increases, the reality of large segments of our society as well as the long-term existential future of America as a unique country with a unique culture and a unique identity being put at unnecessary risk is something our leaders can afford to ignore no longer."

    "An important distinction between post-1965 immigrants and previous waves of settlers is that previous cohorts were more educated, earned higher wages, and did not have an expansive welfare state to fall back on when they could not make it in America and thus did not stay in the country at the expense of the native-born. Another important point of note is the many pauses in immigration that have taken place in this country following a large intake of immigrants. These pauses have been absolutely essential in assimilating the new arrivals and weeding out those who could not or refused to abandon their old loyalties and plunge head-first into mainstream American society".

    My question is to those post-1965 immigrants who are somehow pro-Trump: how do you like it? Do you feel "Anglo-Saxon" enough? Will the speed of your "plunge head-first into mainstream American society" stand up to scrutiny? Ready for some "weeding out"?

    This is actually not the only definite reason GOP is beyond repair.
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I'm pro immigration and compassionate immigration, against separating families. I do think immigration is good for our economy.
    But what is wrong if one is protective of the well being of the state? At what point flow of migrants is destructive to the communities?
    Schools and hospitals cant handle the flow? Why not just open the borders to anyone? You know you can't do it so a process is in place otherwise everything will collapse.
    People want security, jobs, future, quality education, quality health care and social justice.
    How do you keep that balance? Are you willing to adopt migrants and share your home with the needy?

    A sovereign country has the right to control it borders.
    In 2018 Dem's knew exactly what was the root cause of the flood of migrants on the southern border. What the migrants were escaping. Harris was very vocal and outlined in detail the root causes then.
    In 2021 they are looking for root causes and getting ready to pay some countries surrounding the US to curb the immigration.
    A ransom money, that will be extorted for sure. Helping with economy and security to our neighbors is good. But paying them to curb migration is a band-aid.
    As to race and immigration or tribalism it always existed be it Irish migrants complaining that Chinese migrants are cheep labor taking their jobs, Then Italians etc.
    "Do you feel "Anglo-Saxon" enough?" Hmmm, loaded question and and I think its honestly easy one to answer.
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    AKA "The Quiet Parts".
     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    So, in other words, out of place in the modern GOP. Welcome to the Liberal camp. Ironically, even George f#ing W. Bush is way to the left of these yahoos, now.
    Just answer your thing: do you agree with the implication, plain here in the platform, that your wave of immigration (I assume circa 1990ies?) should have been "weeded out" more vigorously? Because if yes, wow. I know that some home that this kind of garbage only applies to Hispanics, but this isn't any better. BTW the biggest change 1965 Immigration Act brought is the wave of Asian immigrants, not Mexican. Also, conceit that the modern immigrants are "less educated" is laughably false evil stereotype.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  5. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I didn't choose this rhetoric. Marjorie Taylor-Greene did. As did Tucker Carson, who lamented that immigrants are "replacing voters" and "diluting" "our" voting power. If you, as a fellow "post-1965 immigrant", is OK with being treated as inherently second-grade out to prove your "worth" to shiny guardians of "Anglo-Saxon" values, it's your right, I guess. I just don't understand this.
     
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Ohh I missed that.

    When you ask Latino or black families why they are moving in to predominant white neighborhoods, they say they are trying to get away from crime, and provide more secure and better future etc.
    For Tucker I think its about Conservative voters vs Democrat voters. More migrants statistically vote for Democrats.
    I'm not out of place in our day GOP, I bring to GOP the needed balance. I think its minority in GOP that view this issue as racial.
    This is a complex situation.
    I do think that USA is blessed when its compassionate toward the less fortunate US citizens, residents and migrants.
    Open flood gates and you will quickly saturate, overwhelm and choke the infrastructure, schools, hospitals and other services.
    There has to be balancing and smart resettlement to grow the economy etc.
     
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    And how did we move from "immigrants" to "black and Latino families"?
    In general though. Right-wingers love to point out this. As if the fact that minorities tend to live in shitty places proves that there's no systemic racism. Somehow.
    And you know why? Because Reps have shitty policies.
    Tucker Carson's work is delivering white supremacist talking points in mainstream language. It is actually becoming harder and harder to distinguish the two, once neo-Nazis learned to substitute "culture" for "race" like Carson does, and Carson picks up their memes like "replacement" (thus moving them into the mainstream). But even besides that: do you really think branding your political opposition "foreign to our Anglo-Saxon culture" can be justified? It happens to be a lie btw: United States voted for FDR four times; New Deal was THAT popular.

    This is what makes you fit in the modern GOP. Ability to delude yourself. On both counts.

    We're discussing talking points from the guts of the MAGA wing of the GOP. A wing that so far wins within the GOP, decisively. So, the "flood" is immigration after 1965. In particular, refugees from countries that do not share "Anglo-Saxon" background; the program Trump went out of his way to decimate. So tell me this: were the US refugees in the 1980/90ies, including the first modern wave from Soviet Union, any more "Anglo-Saxon" than what we have now? Why or why not? Were they "weeded out" sufficiently?

    Tell you what: there are now detailed proposals from Biden White House, on infrastructure and immigration. Tell me what you disagree with there, ok? We can compare with GOP proposals. Except GOP has no proposals on immigration; last one (Purdue-Cotton) called for cutting immigration in half. There was a bipartisan proposal under Bush. Its promoters (Rubio, Graham) got whooped by their own party so good they'll not touch similar things with a ten-feet pole now. GOP is currently a nativist party; it's cute that you think you have a "place" there.
     
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Lets see if the proposals materialize, I like to see Immigration reform and Infrastructure projects that improve the country and provide jobs.
    Time will show how well it will materialize. I liked lowered dependence of foreign oil under Trump, lets see if we are going to loose that and I think we are losing it.
    Crisis at the southern border, is tragic. President Biden is a the hope of the non citizens and migrants at the border.
    Time will show if this is just a talk or there is a walk.
    Russian military if rushing and increasing to the Ukrainian border in larger #'s since President Biden took the lead of the country.
    A lot of challenges.
    I think GOP will follow new strategies, they tried in the past to deviate from conservatism rout only to loose big time so they need to remain the conservative ideology.
    “We shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us.”
    American exceptionalism is not race supremacy, its liberty ideology in the same way that all are isms.
    Liberalism is destroying American cities,
     
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Trump didn't do any more for oil impendence than Obama did. It was the fracking technology that provided oil within the shores of the USA.
     
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  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Under Trump presidency U.S. has been able to cut down on energy imports dramatically, yes, we still rely on oil from overseas. But this reliance will increase under current administration.

    According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration: “In 2018, U.S. net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum from foreign countries , averaged about 2.34 million barrels per day equal to about 11% of U.S. petroleum consumption. This was the lowest percentage since 1957.”
    2019 was as good.

    In case of crisis with Iran like in Carter's time, we would be doing much better under Trump if such crisis happened.
     
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    My post was in response to this sentence of yours.

    "I liked lowered dependence of foreign oil under Trump, lets see if we are going to loose that and I think we are losing it."

    I'm saying that this was a trend that started 30 years ago and picked up lots of steam during the Obama administration and the Trump administration. That credit does not really go to either President and your fear that we will lose that trend under Biden is not really founded in the reality of the situation.
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Is this a justification for you, personally? Dubious achievements as a reason to support a party even f-ng George W. Bush calls "nativist"?

    Biden's immigration and economic agenda have been disclosed as detailed bills. How much of that he'll be able to implement depends on, among other things, the degree of obstruction from your boy McConnell. Here are the links:

    Immigration
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/01/20/fact-sheet-president-biden-sends-immigration-bill-to-congress-as-part-of-his-commitment-to-modernize-our-immigration-system/
    https://www.aila.org/infonet/senate-bill-us-citizenship-act

    Infrastructure and Jobs:
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/03/31/fact-sheet-the-american-jobs-plan/

    Compared with GOP intentional neglect, I'd say this looks pretty good. As a prospective legal immigrant, I'm glad that there's new team not plagued gy Steven Millers' gremlins, at least - so improvement there too. What's your assessment? And, oh: Biden is a sane person who did not inspire neo-Nazis, Confederate traitor cosplayers, and insurrectionists. Low bar, I know, but it is your guy who set it.

    On Ukraine situation: need I say it that I trust Biden's admin to handle it much more than I trust Trump's? There's a pronounced change of tone, for the better, even from Ukraine's government (which is clearly once again being coached by the adults in the room). So far, and it's super early to say, Biden admin looks like they fulfill my expectations (as the best possible chance for Ukraine, just based on his experience in Obama admin).
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Thank you. I've gotten tired of having to repeat that the president of the United States does not personally control the economy, but... it's still true.
     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Policies that the administration sets affect economy.
    Taxation, regulation of business vs over-regulation affects economy.
    I think government can chock the economy, or revive it.
    I remember how bad the economy was when Obama took office the country had lost around 8.6 million jobs due to the Recession.. The recovery was slow but in the last 3 years of Obama administration and first 3 years of Trump admin the GDP was under Obama 2.4, under Trump 2.5, Obama’s administration saw an increase of 8.1 million jobs, Under Trump, the number of jobs increased by 6.55 million in his first three years, and unemployment dropped to 3.7%.
    I'm not counting the 4th year due to COVID 19.
    During President Trump’s first three years in office, the S&P 500 rose by 12.2%, compared to a 7.5% increase in the last three years of the Obama administration.
    the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 meant large, publicly-traded corporations saw a sizable cut in the amount of taxes they had to pay in 2018 and 2019. Less taxes on corporations equals higher revenues, which in turn fuels interest in the stock market — and higher stock prices as more people look to get in on the action. Tax cats possibly contributed to the growth of deficit that increased from 15 to 25 trillion.

    My family had were in good shape during both administrations.
    In general the best I ever did economically was during the Clinton era.
    The hardest times during Bush Sr and to a degree Bush jr.

    I think the improvements that GOP delivered are lower reliance of foreign oil, improved treatment of Veterans, Healthcare was significantly improved with better balance - ACA still exists for those who need it.
    Obama, I think the ACA shouldn't have been a tax with possible penalties and I remember people having skyrocketing deductibles etc. Ukraine was getting a more significant help, not just blankets.
    Islamic terror decreased significantly on US ground.
    These are my personal observations.

    Lets see how current administration will handle the economy, infrastructure, immigration etc.
    Interesting program
    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/548982-sanders-ocasio-cortez-introduce-green-new-deal-for-public-housing

    Is this the $2 trillion infrastructure deal ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The Conservatives say that they are trying to prevent the following destruction by the Democrats.

    Destruction of the institution of marriage, destruction of borders, destruction of education, destruction of private sector health care, destruction of private property, destruction of the Constitution, destruction of free markets!
    Oil and natural gas have become enemies, evil things that the left must wipe out!
     
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    OK, so according to you, the self-appointed restorer of proper balance, THIS psychotic meltdown is the actual position of "The Conservatives", and thus GOP. Right? Did I get it right? Also, no comments on immigration reform?

    No redeeming value. Present-day GOP has none whatsoever. Make another second party from scratch.
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Wrong again, this is not according to me. And no psychotic meltdown just the exposure of what left is really doing and that GOP is the counter balance to that.
    The left is out to destroy the America as it was founded. The long game is stripping people of power and liberty and freedom.
    Young people have been brainwashed, propagandized.
    left think they're finding and pursuing utopia. But the people with the grand design of this, the long game is the elimination of freedom.
    I don't think people understand how revolutionary it was to vote for Donald Trump,
    how literally upending of our system it was to vote for somebody like Donald Trump, to go that far outside the mainstream of our politics. It was huge.
    Lenin and the communists wanted to divide us by class. Hitler and the Nazis wanted to divide us by race.
    And many in GOP are seeing that today the American progressives- Left want to divide us by both. to many in GOP is not in an argument over how to make America better.
    For many in GOP the argument about how to save America.
    Saying all that I hope current administration proves me wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  18. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Active Member

    Populism is neither a new platform for a US Presidential Candidate to run on nor is it unique to the US. Actually getting a Populist leader in place is new to the US but, again, not to other countries.
     
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  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    So the left is Hitler and the Nazis with Lenin and the communists all rolled into one. That's why I want to destroy America! I was wondering why I was so set on destroying America. Thanks for explaining.
     
  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I'll spoil it for you: it won't. Because what you has been fed is unscientific according to Popper's criteria. It's unfalsifiable; the narrative masters can twist anything to fit this narrative. This is how you can be absolutely convinced that old-timer moderates like Chuck Schumer are "extreme left-wingers", Dem policies, which would be center-right in Europe, are "Communist takeover", and the party that consistently gets more votes from Americans in all but one national elections of the lase few decades is "foreign" and "un-American". Also the fiction of USA, which has its national origin story in a literal Revolution against hereditary privilege and which elected FDR FOUR times is uniquely and inherently conservative nation. More conservative, in fact, than its former imperial overlords the British - who are keeping the Monarchy to this day. Or how about these un-Conservative Commies in Canada. Who, sorry to tell you, are ALSO keeping the Monarchy, the very same one in fact. This belies the common sense.

    Here is what I see happening. Over the years, and way before Trump, GOP crystallized an ideology. That's right, they are not in thrall of moneyed interests and corporations because they are bought. They are in thrall of the moneyed interests and corporations because they genuinely believe these are pure and holy Elect of Our Lord the Free Market. That the poor and anyone un-successful are sinners before the face of Lord Market (peace be with it!), and any social programs trying to help these people just interfere with the Lord's Wrath. But social programs are popular, and they needed the hordes of unwashed sinners to keep voting them into power. So the party keeps inventing enemies to scare the masses into fake solidarity with them. The Reds, the Welfare Queens, the Inner City Gangs, Radical Islamic Terror, and now - immigrants. Then Trump comes and notices that one of the stories that's told meshes nicely with genuine nativist and supremacist sentiment, and also with Kremlin propaganda they just perfected, and the legend was born. So what's left of the Chamber of Commerce Republicans now have to appease the dinosaur they created.
     
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