AIU... fake or not?

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Daniel66, Aug 17, 2009.

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  1. Daniel66

    Daniel66 New Member

    Hi guyz,

    what about http://www.aiu.edu/ ?

    Some say i't state-approved and authorized to issue degrees, some say not.
    http://online.degree.net/accredited-unaccredited-state-approved-diploma-mill/t-credible-state-licensed-university-3415.html

    Who is right?

    Thanx


    P.S.
    oh... I'm not looking for a phony degree or something easy to obtain, I'm regularly graduated here in Italy, just wanna know...
    But there's a great difference between a state-approved University and an only-online/no-campus/no-physical-address/no-phone/just-buy/not-existing one... isn't it?
     
  2. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator Staff Member

    I like that a school with Atlantic in the name is based out of Hawaii. I would avoid the geography program. :rolleyes:

    This page tells me all that I need to know.

    The following bit sounds like standard diploma mill-talk.
    I would stay far away from this business.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  3. MichaelR

    MichaelR Member

  4. Daniel66

    Daniel66 New Member

    If you look at the link I posted, you'll se that someone was searching for a non-accredited (but legally authorized to issue degrees) University.

    Oregon standards, or US's, could not be the same as other countries (i.e. medical degree from Vietnam are not recognized in Italy).

    The legality of a degree is often the only thing that matters, it depends on what someone wants to do with his degree.

    Fo specific licensure it is obvious that non-accredited degree could not be useful, but for other (legal !!!) pourposes maybe... isn'it?
    ;)
     
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    It is currently legal to operate an unaccredited college or university in the State of Hawaii, provided that certain restrictions are met. These include:

    - the school must have an agent in Hawaii who can be contacted by the State;
    - the school must have an office in Hawaii;
    - the school must have at least 25 Hawaii residents enrolled;
    - the school cannot issue law or medical degrees;
    - the school must clearly indicate that its degrees are unaccredited.

    These are relatively loose rules, but in the past, the State of Hawaii has vigorously prosecuted schools that do not comply with them,

    Atlantic International University currently appears to be in compliance with Hawaii's rules for unaccredited schools (for example, the AIU website clearly indicates that its degrees are unaccredited, as noted in a previous post). So AIU appears to be issuing degrees legally in Hawaii, and its degrees should be recognized as legal and valid in Hawaii.

    However, AIU appears to lack any form of recognized accreditation. Without accreditation, there is no assurance that its degrees will be recognized as legal or valid in other US states, or in other countries. In the State of Oregon, for example, it would be illegal to advertise an AIU degree, unless a disclaimer was added to note its unaccredited status.

    Note that while AIU degrees are apparently legal in Hawaii, they cannot be described as "state-approved". As noted in the link above: "Unaccredited institutions cannot indicate or suggest that the State licenses, approves, or regulates its operations." The State of Hawaii allows them to operate, but that is not the same as "approval".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    The fact that a school is issuing degrees legally means that its proprietors aren't breaking the law and risking arrest by doing what they are doing.

    But a school's owners' ability to stay out of jail doesn't necessarily mean that the degrees that they sell have any academic and educational validity. Legal operation doesn't require anybody to recognize the degrees and doesn't forbid anyone from concluding that they are meaningless.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  7. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    I can't say whether this school is a legitimate unaccredited nonstandard school, but they certainly admit that they are unaccredited if you read down the page. Perhaps they could state it more plainly.

    Over the years though, I have noticed that the unaccredited schools that offer something of value for the money plainly state they are unaccredited.

    On the other hand, schools that claim false accreditation or mask their accreditation are usually nonwonderful at best.

    Perhaps we could find exceptions, but it seems that legitimate unaccredited schools make their status plain, and those that aren't legitimate don't make their accreditation status obvious.
     
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Hawaii state law requires them to state that they are unaccredited. The law even specifies the kind of bold type that they have to use in stating it.

    Unaccredited schools often try to minimize the impact of that by embedding the legally required text within a mass of rhetoric about how accreditation is private and voluntary and not really all that important.

    I notice that in this instance, Atlantic International University is claiming unrecognized accreditation by the rather doubtful ACI.

    http://www.aiu.edu/Accreditation.html
     
  9. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Yes, and that fudging about accreditation might be a red flag...
     
  10. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Some skeptics might also suggest that AIU's claim to offer doctoral-level programs in no fewer than 137 different fields of study strains credulity. AIU offers bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees in fields as diverse as Egyptology, Mining Engineering, Sports Management, Bacteriology, Fashion Design, and Microeconomy. Their breadth apparently rivals that of Berkeley or Harvard.

    Some would also be troubled by AIU's offerings of unaccredited degrees in highly-regulated professional fields like accounting, architecture, civil engineering, and education. It seems unlikely that unaccredited AIU degrees in these fields would be accepted by any US state licensing board -- not even in Hawaii -- which renders their value questionable.

    The AIU "accreditation" page does acknowledge that "In the United States, many licensing authorities require accredited degrees as the basis for eligibility for licensing." However, this disclosure is explicitly required by Hawaii law.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  11. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    There you go.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    IIRC, Century was "grandfathered" in when New Mexico stiffened up their state approval requirements. That means that Century doesn't adhere to the new requirements. If I saw a resume boasting a degree from this place I would throw it in the trash.
     
  13. nj593

    nj593 Member

    Didnt AIU run a multimillion dollar tv campaign about 2 years ago on television trying their hardest to get students?
    I thought they went away but i guess students actually signed up.

     
  14. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    I agree with the comments about shying away from schools that put in the little "tiff" about accreditation is voluntary, etc. etc. This "throws UP" red flags for me. If they want to play up the voluntary accreditation topic, then it is my opinion the school put a link to the USDOE Accreditation site. I use to believe that accreditation was a voluntary pursuit. However, given the times, I now put more stock into schools that are nationally accredited, regionally accredited, or certified by a bonafide agency, or state approval with the the right laws and use of those laws. That use to be CA.

    I graduated from Calsouthern's Psy D program a couple of years ago. It was a rigorous program. Liked it very much. Kept me on my toes. Though, it was difficult to maintain studies at the doctorate level and working full time. I become a guru with time management. After 7 long years I completed the degree. I almost thought I was in over my head with so many projects and deadlines. I can honestly say, CalSouthern is on point. I have a MA from ECU, Grad Certificate in Public Health with UNC-CH (one course to go), the professional pharmacy technology diploma with Ashworth University, and many many CEUs with the APA. When I was doing my doctorate practicum at a state operated psych hospital, there were several other doctorate practicum and interns there. Our field supervisor said I was one on only a few who knew what to do and get my work done without having to be pointed to every little thing. The supervisor said I was as good as a doctorate student from Virginia in my abilities performing the job. I felt really good. I just can't understand why it is taking CSU so long to get accredited. The courses are very comparable to others I have come in contact with over the years. With the BPPVE out of the picture now, I don't know if I would recommend CSU unless they do get accredited by someone or the state reinstates the approval seal. If not, employers are not looking at these schools like they use to. They do a double take. I was enrolled with Andrew Jackson in the MPH but have reconsidered to go with a Master's in Health Care. I plan on maybe going the nursing home administrator route. Right now, I am in a position that surveys these places to ensure they are following state, federal and all other rules in operating.
     
  15. malaboman

    malaboman New Member

    Hi Everyone
    My first post on this site. I have read with interest your posts on Atlantic university.
    To put you in the picture, I work in Doha, State of Qatar as the Executive Recruiter for a very large medical corporation (16000 employees).
    I have been the scourge of holders of bogus degrees for many years now, and continue my work here in Doha. Only a couple of weeks ago an employee presented a "degree" from Atlantic university to support an application for promotion. I wrote a short piece for the Exec. Director of HR and I guess that person will NOT be promoted.
    This Corporation maintains a zero tolerance policy towards "degrees" from degree Mills and other Unaccredited colleges/universities. Would you like to be treated by an unqualified Doctor or Nurse? If you think that does not happen, I assure you it does.
    I have stopped employment applications from the bottom to the top (Assistant Managing Directors !).
    I have done some sideways thinking about AIU, and have traced the Dean, Dr. Vaclin, to his real home in a Middle School in Miami ! So far messages to the principal at that school have gone unanswered, are schools in Dade County still on holiday can anyone tell me?
    As far as we are concerned we have not, do not and will not accept ANY unaccredited degrees, even with Apostilles (what are they supposed to do?).
    OK. that's enough for my first post, I look forward to learning more from this community.
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Welcome aboard, if all organizations were as thorough in analysis of credentials the diploma mill trade would die. Goo job!

    An apostille is simply a document that proves the signature on the document is valid. It does absolutely nothing to prove that the document itself is valid, valuable, true, or relevant. see http://hcch.e-vision.nl/upload/wop/2008pd05e.pdf
     
  17. funzway

    funzway New Member

    Atlantic International University

    Dear all,

    Let me clarify about AIU. Atlantic International University degree is not fake. It is a real qualification from a real university offering online distance learning. It is not a diploma mill like what some have accused and they have got the authority to issue degree based on their programme; it is in compliance with US law. You still have to complete their curriculums required by your area of study.
    But, the only different is that the university is not accredited by U.S. Department of Education. AIU's Distance Learning Programs are unique, non-traditional. However, if you are looking for recognised qualifications to qualify you for licensing such as medicine, architecture or law, then this University may not be suitable. It is recommended that you consider the importance of National Accreditation for your specific field or profession and make your decision accordingly.
    If you have already got your professional degree for medicine, architecture, teaching, engineering or law, then you can seek or pursue your post graduate degree such as masters or doctorates from Atlantic International University. For non-licensing qualifications and budget reason, it is worth to consider AIU as an option. The choice is yours. Unaccredited does not mean it is fake degree or diploma mill. AIU is legal but unaccredited.
     
  18. funzway

    funzway New Member

    Aiu

    Hi there,

    AIU is not fake and the University is not a diploma mill. It is just that AIU is not accredited by the Education Authority of the U.S. The Atlantic International University is legal and in compliance with the U.S. law. Again, I would to reiterate that it is not a fake university and it is not a diploma mill like some have accused.

    Regards.
     
  19. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    You statement might be more believable if you stated your connection to AIU - do you work for AIU, or you a student, a lawyer from HI, or ??????
     
  20. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    No, not a fake per se, it's in the class we call "legal but unwonderful", one of those businesses-masquerading-as-schools that provide degrees that are of extremely limited utility.

    Uh, no. It is a "school" located in Hawaii, which, in spite of the excellent efforts of authorities there, still has a bunch of unwonderful programs because of relatively lax licensure laws.

    And the implication here, which is completely false, is that because the programs are so unique and non-traditional that they are not eligible for accreditation. Bullshit. Look at programs like CIIS, Union Institute, and various others who have very innovative means of delivering education and yet are accredited by their respective regional accreditors.

    Which would be, as Steve Levicoff once said, be like having a wedding cake with turd frosting.

    And equally worth rejecting this idea immediately, if one cares about having a respected credential.
     

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