Discussion in 'High School Education via Distance Learning' started by B.N., Sep 20, 2005.
Children get left behind all the time.
Your point is well taken. There is no doubt that there are instances where parents declare that they are home schooling their children and they neglect to do so. This, of course, is different than "unschooling" which is an alternative form of educating (as are discovery learning and the Montessori method).
It is also just as true that within the public education system, children who are "schooled" can be equally neglected and abused. When I taught in a public charter school, the school was purposely located in a low-income area served by a school district that included country club communities and areas of poverty. All of our students had come from other local public schools. I had students who, after 8-9 years in public schools, were functionally illiterate. The public high school graduation rates in the area were abysmal. Is that not just a dire and despicable a situation as Jimmy the (non) homeschooled child?
As a higher ed faculty member and administrator in four states, I have seen high percentages of public high school graduates who were unable to do college-level work. I'm sorry, but the biggest problems in our educational system do not include homeschooling.
Sadly, I know you're right.
Do you feel that public svhools that fail to educate should also be charged with something?
I think this is a reasonable question. As has been pointed out, there are lots of kids in school who are being pushed up through the grades without learning anything. They graduate yet are functionally illiterate. Aside from bad marks on their standardized testing scores I see no consequences for the schools.
At the same time I have a lot of trouble setting this problem at the feet of the schools. I think much of the responsibility should be placed with the parents.
Interesting article on homeschooling with a few interesting numbers to throw into this discussion. I wonder what responsibility the SCHOOLS have at $10,000 PER KID to produce results when at $500 per kid homeschool families, on average, produce much higher results? Let's add that public school teachers have a minimum of a bachelor's degree while parents have no educational credential requirement beyond a high school diploma in all 50 states.
Number of Homeschoolers Growing Nationwide
I fully agree throwing money at public schools is not the answer to making them better. A quick comparison of D.C. public schools vs. the school systems in Northern Virginia shows that.
On the other hand, the $500 figure doesn't include the opportunity cost of the parent being home to teach rather than out working, so that's not a fair comparison.
That's true. I certainly wouldn't teach OTHER people's children for $10k per year. OTOH, ask me if I'd teach 30 of them for $300,000 and I'd say HELL YES. I'll also throw out there that while "I" stay home, more and more of my homeschooling friends are working, many even work full time. It's just a matter of how old the child is and how compliant /disciplined they are. I wouldn't have to be here for my 12, 14, or 18 year olds, but my 8 year old still needs me full time.
I agree. The problems in our public education system cannot be blamed on a single thing. Many times, parents to not foster a culture of learning and support for their children's education. Sometimes this is due to the way they themselves were brought up or it can be a single parent's level of exhaustion (or more self-centered priorities).
On the school side, it can be that: 1) the "one size fits all" curriculum adopted by the school does not fit for certain learners; 2) some teachers are not very skilled; 3) some teachers do great for some kid but not others; 4) the factory model of public school, with 40 minutes devoted to one topic, 40 minutes to the next, etc. is a model that is not conducive to optimum learning; 5) the factory model of public school, arranged by age is effective for creating peer dependency, but less effective for optimum learning or preparation for work, study and life after high school; 6) the corrupt nature of educational politics is no different than other government politics and diverts many resources and funding to administration and away from teachers and students; 7) concerns about accusations of racism or other threats encourages social promotion, when focused resources to at-risk students may be in order; 8) the funding model of government education (including "use it or lose it") discourages innovation and efficiency and encourages waste; thus taking funds from projects to help students in favor of short-term immediate purchases (before the fiscal year runs out) of items that often end up unused and in a closet somewhere; 9) lack of good competent leadership; 10) all kinds of other stuff.
I agree with you 100%. As a teacher, I see students who are strongly supported by their parents and I see the opposite. The parents who partner with teachers to support their children at home see significantly higher achievement. Although there are some exceptions, parents who leave the education of their child solely to teachers often see less positive results. We only have influence over the students for approximately 25% of their time each weekday and we can only do so much.
It's funny, the parents who put time into their children are generally satisfied with us and many of the parents who invest almost no time in their children complain about us. Citing us as the reason their child is behind.
A very big debate here at the moment over education. The federal govt is trying to get the states signed up to educational standards and funding of schools. There is a lot of resistance to it because some states think that federal govt is going to reduce its funding of schools. The federal money is currently indexed to the state investment in education. The federal govt pulled money out of universities to fund its initiative which was not popular.
In short, the argument is that teachers need to be signed to performance criteria and the better performing teachers get paid more. This only happens when each school to brought to an accepted standard in equipment and human resources. Some schools will get extra support because of their special needs. The crux, however, is that teaching performance is linked to pay rates etc.
This ignores the elephant in the room that some areas have parenting issues while other areas have high standards of parenting. The best opportunity for learning exists where the teaching and parenting skills are high. Increasing the teaching skill and dedication without the other is a poor second but better than nothing I guess.
Very relevant discussion! I'm a teacher and I know the story. I can testify that kids are under a lot of pressure in schools in the present scenario. They hardly get any time to breathe and have some time for themselves. Thus most of the parents these days choose to get their kids home schooled. Home Schooling is not bad but a better option would be sending them to a school which gives them some room to breathe and move around freely. Even when it comes to [advertising link removed by Mod]
I've made some mistakes in this thread but I would challenge karin to show that this is true.
Of all the families I know, only one famility is homeschooling their kids.
I'm sure that some situations work out exactly as you've said. However, this is hardly a criticism of homeschooling. Rather, it's more a condemnation of the "traditional" system. Think about what system these students are bombing out of. If, as you describe, these kids are left to run around without any discipline, and if there parents do a "half-assed" job, it's because they've all ended up as homeschoolers by default, without intent, skills, or perspective.
What you've described isn't homeschooling. What you've described is truancy.
Pow! love that
Yes, and so you agree with me. Because what I clearly stated was "This is not a condemnation of homeschooling, it's just an acknowledgement of a system failure." Thanks for your support. Pow!
I wish my wife and I could homeschool our kids. I think it's hysterical when people say "but...but..but...but socialization!". Absolutely, I can really see the value of learning cuss words, being bullied, made fun of when you don't have the right shoes, placed into stifling and many time confounding peer groups, and told exactly what to learn and how to learn it based on (the current whimsical musing of out of touch administrators) fanciful and wishful thinking. Yeah socialization! But at least our kids might be good workers some day. Sit down, shut up and pound on that keyboard like the monkey you are.
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