Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by BLD, May 24, 2002.
At $2000, I may have to consider a second doctorate from UNIZUL.
Some members here seem to have had success getting interdepartmental cooperation for academic interests which overlap (eg theology & IT).
That's interesting. When I am ready, I will seek advice from UNIZUL students who post here. I will definitely consider UNIZUL in future.
I have to disagree with you on this on behalf of the 100K+ graduates of institutions like Exelsior, TESC, etc. They should not be considered in the diploma mill category at all. At the bachelor level proper degree assessment through testing and portfolio level is very acceptable not just by the graduates but by academia. But the key word here is 'proper' using valid assessment instruments. This is what does not occur in the unaccredited degree world. I do agree that it is quite another matter when accepting a large number of credit for graduate study. It is a hallmark attribute for degree mill operations and most unaccredited institutions.
Well said Broderick,
And as someone who is also not an insider, I share some of your other feelings also. However, I think, and I don't think you would disagree, that the point most of the posters are trying to make is that RA is in MOST cases better suited for the individual. I say this while fulfilling a NA(acics) BS. It will work for me because as a government employee they are equivalent (in theory, but my record will negate any bad connotations). Also, the college I attend has very close ties with local corporations and firms who also consider it equivalent. The problem lies, as anyone on this forum will tell you, in the acceptance outside the local area or in academia. If you will never move or want more than one or two choices for advancing your education then it works. Unless, of course, someone buys the company who has different policies, or you want to move to be close to family, or........et cetera. I am also proud of the education I am receiving at a NA college, and I KNOW I would perform just as well at a RA college or university because without regard to accreditation I work my ass off at anything I do. Still, if you approach it objectively, RA is better by default. That is really the end. Not necessarily because of anything except acceptance. So, for someone who wants to keep their options open (which I personally think is a smart thing to do , not just in education, but in life) RA wins, hands down.
Well said Tony. I wish you all the best with your studies. There are opportunities to go on with your NA BS. I believe that both Capella & Liberty U will consider NA degrees. Other schools may as well. RA is preferable all things being equal but you are still pursuing an accredited degree. What is your course of study?
While I personally agree with you, there is the perception thing.
When quering some HR folks I know about a South African degree, all but one cringed as soon as I suggested it. When I asked about a state approved school only one of 4 cringed. (I'm sure that more would cringe had they known the whole story.) When I asked about Australian schools, nobody cringed until I mentioned DL and then the single person had some reservations, but nothing insurmountable.
Granted, this is a VERY informal "over coffee" type survey and it's totally worthless; but it does highlight common perceptions ...
My first choice would be a domestic (USA) RA doctorate. But, with costs being what they are and being up to my ears in debt from my Masters my second choice would be an Australian school followed by a South African school. I'm still deciding ...
As for ability or lazy: I finished my residental masters in less than 2 years while working full time and graduated with a 4.0, so I think I can hold my own.
There is no doubt that if you are using the degree for a position any degree from somewhere else other than Canada or the US will raise questions such as when were you in Australia, South Africa, or England? Certainly this will not be the case in all situations. There seems to be some natural aversion to DL that I have encountered. It runs along the lines of if the person just heard the name of the school then they have no problem, but when they hear the method of study they are skeptical. This may well change with time. We still hear DL or independent study referred to as a "degree by correspondence".
I think the phenomenon you mentioned of State approved schools receiving no reaction may well be because as I think someone pointed out, people are ignorant of accreditation issues (even HR folks as IIRC Dr. B mentioned). Something like Pacific Western University sounds good, sounds American. University of Wallongong (Australia) or University of Zululand (SA) sounds foreign. Now, in my organization the HR folks are required to follow a methodology. The school must be accredited by a recognized agency (regional or National), if foreign, the school is either in a book HR has of already approved foreign schools/ degrees or you must obtain an evaluation of your degree by an evaluator chosen from an HR approved list.
I am in the process for a BS in accounting. This in one field where RA rules. There is almost no way to even sit for the CPA exam unless I can get accepted to an RA school for MaCC or MBA accounting emphasis. Getting accepted can be done of course, although there are a few hoops to jump through and a few people to talk to. Of course, I have to face the possibility that no school will accept the degree, and have alternate plans.
I really do appreciate the help naming some possible schools because I do want to continue my education.
Just call me lazy and stupid. Hell, everyone else does.
But there are a handful of us (I might be the only one on Degreeinfo, though) who don't particularly want a doctorate.
And there are even a few of us for whom South African or Australian degree programs have few attractions. I mean Zululand... why in the world would I want to study at Zululand?
Frankly, for my purposes, some of the CA-approved schools are just as attractive.
They are nearby, so I can take advantage of on-campus events and meet faculty and other students in person. That's important when intellectual stimulation and community is perhaps my primary reason for enrolling.
They are lower pressure. You can call me stupid and lazy, and perhaps I am. But I am also 53 years old, and am interested in studying out of intellectual curiosity and love for my subject, not to meet others expectations or to cut a blazing career path across the firmament. Frankly, I want to meet as few cut-throat academic competitors like Mr. Komoszewski a couple of weeks ago as I can manage. I want to be able to go slow, and to be able to read a book just because it interests me. I don't want to be savaged because I used the wrong Greek lexicon.
The general public thinks that having scholarly interests is weird and intimidating. The academic world sneers at us. But there has to be a better alternative than to be one of those lonely old men reading in the library by himself...
I think that there is, but I don't know if it lies in conventional academia. And while distance education would seem to be ideal for creating a virtual community of the sort I seek, it has little to offer at this point. Frankly, I don't see myself taking any more DL classes.
These remarks might not have much to do with North's point. But for some reason his post made me feel like the round peg being mercilessly pounded into the square hole.
What exactly are you saying?
Your comments are refreshing. My educational pursuits up to this point have been because I *wanted* to learn, but I also know that they have career benefits for myself. BUT: I'm at the point now where anything further I do will no longer have a direct career benefit. For that reason I don't want to drop $40k or $50k on further educational pursuits. My entire purpose of pursuing anything from this point on is because *I* want to learn. I enjoy school. (Ok, I'm weird.)
I'm glad I'm not alone in this camp.
While we are at this: Where can I find information on Uni of Zululand? I have my Bear's Guide 14th edition in front of me yet I cannot find it.
(I'm particularly interested in their DL options ... )
Is Non GAAP really useful?
I don't necessarily agree with your 'blanket' assessments in the first paragraph. However, I do beleive that one day, someone will emerge with a PhD, and not from Clifton et al, who has never set foot in a classrooom, who has never attended a lecture, who have never sat an assessment, or ever written a paper. THAT is what concerns me about portfolio assessment.
Once we then look at non-GAAP/RA schools we find a wobbly version of quality control if any at all. Someone made a statement here somewhere, that you only get out what you put in, and I can attest to that being the case, but then wankers walked away with the same degree as me, but who put in SFA. I can show what I did, but that does not address the issue of unacceptable assessment strategies and practices, and the total inability to control these practices in non externally accountable institutions.
OK - I have unaccredited degrees but at the top level. Are they the same as for a GAAP/RA institution? For me, quite likely - for someone else - God only knows, and that is where the issue is. And that is why I wouldn't do one more course from these groups even if it didn't matter academically or professionally.
I have decided to do more education for the hell of it - and I have gone back to UNE for another masters - MA [History]. I know the rigour, the respect and the quality - I don't need the degree, and I am not going to use it, but why should I settle for less? That is the decision that I have come to...GAAP/RA or nothing. The joke in all this is that if it goes as planned by the faculty and me, that is where, and the topic, that I will do my PhD in.
Liberty has an MBA program. I don't know what majors are available within it. It is done through DL (VHS tape, proctored exams, etc).
Look under *distance learning*
I don't think anything is written anywhere. It was stumbled onto because of someone posting about the South Africa Theological Seminary and the possibility of doing a doctorate through them from the University of Zululand. SATS handled administrative stuff, while you faculty promoter came from UNIZUL. Very easy to deal with in terms of administration and helpfulness. One member here went outside of the strictly theology faculty to work out something between two departments (I believe IT & Theology).
It may be a situation similar to other Australian & South African schools where you contact them and see if something can be worked out.
Thanks. I tried to contact them but all of the e-mail addresses that I tried came back "undeliverable".
I'd like to contact someone in their education department. (I'm interested in pursuing a doctorate in education ...)
If you know of anyone please let me know ...
Have you gone to the Unizul website and then to the faculty of education? www. uzulu.ac.za Or search for "Unizul"
Yeah ... that's where I got the e-mail addresses that didn't work.
I'll try the webmaster again I guess.
I get a little leary of dealing with organizations that are so hard to contact though.
They apparently have had problems with the web site for a couple of months that began with it being hacked into.
All I can say is that once you get through they are very quick to respond and helpful (at least the theology deparment is).
Separate names with a comma.