AACSB question

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by twigman27, Oct 29, 2008.

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  1. twigman27

    twigman27 New Member

    I am currently a senior in high school from Michigan. 29 ACT 4.0 gpa

    Presently interested in a Management and/or Marketing degree.

    Right now have been accepted into Grand Valley, Northern, Michigan Tech, and Northwood. Have also applied to IUB and UM-Ann Arbor but wont hear from them until later.

    Anyways, all of these schools are AACSB accredited except for Northwood. Northwood has been climbing up my list recently in where I would like to go because of its business specific curriculum. However recently I discovered that it is not AACSB accredited. Not in the best situation financially, especially in terms of getting financial aid, so IUB and UM are probably ruled out due to cost. No scholarships from UM and IUB is out of state.

    First, is it worth the cost to go to a school like UM or IUB. I have had the philosophy for some time now that it doesnt really matter where you go to school as long as you work hard and network well. I know people who make 100k + and love there jobs with only 2 years at a local community college.

    Second, is AACSB that important into getting a job. I have heard great things about Northwood's networking oppurtunities and because it is non traditional I can get a double major in the time I could get a single at any other university I listed. Especially when comparing Northwood to Northern which isnt even that great of a school Im not sure if it matters.

    Feedback would be appreciated, and a 'thank you' to anyone who could give me some help on the subject.
     
  2. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    Welcome to the Board.

    I would suggest that you first college degree to be one that you have the opportunity to interface with your professors and peers. AACSB it is important if you have plans to teach in the FAR future. It would be to your advantage to go to a University that you can afford and or get scholarship.
    Best of luck.
     
  3. twigman27

    twigman27 New Member

    not sure if this is the right place to post this thread but I found the website and this was the closest I could find to this subject. it looks more like a debate then answering questions though so sorry if this isnt the right place to post it.
     
  4. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    Is not the right tread, this is the right place, but you will get more answers, be patient, the answers are coming.
     
  5. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    Not knowing much about the schools you mentioned, it is difficult to answer, but I would say in general, it is not worth going into debt for a school when there is a cheaper option. Going to community college for the first two years and then transferring to a bigger school for the final two might be a good compromise.

    For the second question, AACSB is not so important as they would like to make us believe. Reputation of the school in the field you want to enter is more important.
     
  6. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Your plans sound good to me. I have hired lots of people including new graduates. I like to see that new graduates have some kind of work experience so you might want to find a part time job or volunteer position (perhaps during college holidays or weeekends). Showing that you can work to rules and be reliable are important assetts to an employer.
    Best wishes for your future activities.
     
  7. foobar

    foobar Member

    It CAN make a difference where you go school - especially if you are looking for your first job outside of the state (sometimes city) in which the school is located. Where are their new graduates getting jobs? What kind of jobs are they getting? How do their careers progress? Employers DO consider the quality of schools in their hiring decisions. I can name a couple of RA schools in Michigan whose presence on a resume is sufficient for some employers to immediately reject a candidate for employment.

    By the way, the choice of school is less important for the older student (most posters on this board) who has work history and other experiences which employers can include in their decision processes.

    And these people would be a substantial exception to the norm.

    If I were to rank the schools to which you have been admitted, I would rank your current preference last in terms of reputation and value.

    UM and IUB would of course be at the top of your list if you are admitted.

    I would caution you to choose the school offering the best overall education rather than viewing the degree as a commodity or a "ticket" to be punched. All BBA degrees are NOT the same in quality. Likewise, there are differences in the quality of the general education program and campus life between schools.

    You have an ACT and grade point that should get you quite a bit of money at the schools to which you have already been accepted. Don't sell yourself short.

    As far as your first question is concerned, AACSB accreditation means that the business school has appropriate resources, structures and processes in place to accomplish its mission. Grad schools are far more likely to take the accreditation in account than an employer. Some MBA programs will waive required courses if taken at the undergraduate level at an AACSB school.

    Disclaimer: I am on the faculty of one of the schools on your list. I will not tell you which.
     
  8. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I tend to think of AACSB accreditation as being relevant only for grad programs. Before I get yelled at please understand that I'm aware that the AACSB accredits undergrad programs as well. So, is there any data that indicates that someone with a BA from an AACSB accredited school has a substantially better chance of gaining admission to an AACSB acredited MBA program (as opposed to a non-AACSB Bachelors)? Real data? Not anecdotes? This would be great to see if it exists because, as the above postings demonstrate, people might make real life decisions based upon such data.

    Beyond that I'd think that the question might be, "Is there any evidence that indicates that graduates with BA degrees from AACSB accredited schools fare better in the workplace (without subsequently earning an MBA) than non-AACSB accredited grads?
     
  9. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    I don't even think a business degree is a necessity.

    http://www.forbes.com/2002/04/25/0425ceoschools.html

    The reality is while a degree is nice and can often open doors, it is the individual, the individual's mentors/network, and a little luck thrown in that can lead to success.

    I prefer to work with folks with thinking backgrounds. Too often business schools don't teach soft skills, leadership, or how to grow a spine.

    I personally believe AACSB is important for those that want to move into academia at those particular institutions, but anyone who spends some time on these forums will do well to heed Dr. Pina's advice on making the grade in higher learning.

    My personal recommendation is to either:

    1. Obtain a degree from the highest ranked name brand school you can get in to and afford if you are not sure of where you will work.

    2. Obtain a degree from a reputable institution in the area where you intend to work.

    Once an individual has 5 or so years in the workforce I believe experience rather than school will carry the weight on the resume. There are of course exceptions, but in the business world results will outweigh degree pedigree. (see link above)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2008
  10. foobar

    foobar Member

    I chair a graduate admission committe and based on my experience having an AACSB accreditated undergrad degree can make a difference for a marginal candidate when the commitee is not familiar with the school. IIn these cases, if we know the school, the school's reputation will always outweigh the lack of AACSB accreditation.

    Obviously, this would only apply to an admission candidate with an undergraduate business degree since one can enroll in an MBA with any undergraduate major.

    I'll repeat what I said earlier - some schools will treat certain undergrad courses taken at AACSB schools as automatically satisfying MBA prereqs. Of these schools, some won't accept non-AACSB credit at all while others evaluate non-AACSB undergrad courses on a case-by-case basis. You can find examples of each by perusing catalogs.

    There are lots of confounding factors here. Most degree completion type business programs or degree programs for older students are not AACSB accredited, but students are often already employed.

    Anecdotally, students with non-AACSB business degrees generally do not have the same access to the best entry-level jobs. One reason for this is that AACSB schools tend to be larger and it is more cost effective for employers to recruit at larger schools if they are hiring several employees.

    Otherwise, I personally don't believe that a bachelor's from an AACSB school is that big a deal in the workplace.
     
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Great insights into the process. Lots of factors, accreditation being only one.
     
  12. KariS

    KariS New Member

    Quite a range of schools. Three rural Michigan, one near Dallas, one mid-sized city in Indiana, and then Ann Arbor. I notice all are regionally accredited.

    I also note you have not said much about yourself, I say this because college is a lot more than studying. You use the screen name of twigman27, this could indicate either a physical description (tall and thin) or an interest in nature.

    So, would you be happy in an urban environment for four years?

    Are you POSITIVE that business is what you want to study?

    How far from home do you want to be (aford to be)?

    Only you can answer these questions, and not answering them honestly can lead to some miserable times.

    BTW, I recommend Tech.
     
  13. sandraeli

    sandraeli New Member

    With a score of 29 on the ACT, I would check each school's catalog for the possibility of receiving advanced standing credit for high ACT scores.

    San Juan College in New Mexico, for example, awards up to 22 credits with certain scores on each section of the test. Going this route could put you nearly a year ahead. Other schools do this as well, but theirs is the most liberal policy I've seen so far.

    Good luck!
     
  14. twigman27

    twigman27 New Member

    Alright, thank you everyone for the information. It has cleared up some things but also left things a little foggy. Based on your responses I've gathered that AACSB accredation is mainly important for those going into teaching at AACSB schools and other perks such as being able to waive classes.

    There seems to be a common trend between your posts that instead of AACSB it is more important to have go to a school with a good reputation and that supplies you a good education.

    Here is where things are still a little foggy. How do you know which schools have the highest reputations and give the best education. Obviously there are the National Rankings but the only two schools on there for undergrad business programs are UM and IU. These would be the most reputable but as I said before are also the hardest on the wallet. For the other choices are their any resources that allow you to see where the other schools stand up? Talking to the school or visiting their website is not a good way because the information they give you will always be biased. All the schools will have good things to say and these are often true but they always conviently manage to step around things that they arent as good with. Student review sites are also generally the same way because all they reviews come from students who went there and liked it.

    The Northwood I am talking about is not located near Dallas, there is one there, but rather the one in Midland, Michigan.

    Twigman27 does come from my physical stature, tall and skinny. 27 is just my favorite number.

    I am positive I want to study business (management or marketing). I have contemplated that for quite some time and it seems to right fit for my personality. As for my personality: very outgoing, analytical (possibly the reason I cant choose a definite school to go to), conversationalist, use wordplay and metaphors alot, can be sarcastic at times. I also enjoy being in charge of things when it comes to group projects. I think that I can find ways to have fun and get along with people wherever I attend college.

    Small or Big, Rural or Urban, either way I think I would be fine. I come from a highschool that is very small and rural, 80 students in graduating class, so any college I go to would be bigger than now. None of the colleges, aside from Ann Arbor, are even in an urban enviroment, most are smaller cities/towns.

    As for distance I want to be atleast a little away from home. (reason why I did not apply to MSU, 5 minutes away) Tech is probably pushing it in terms of how far I want to be away so all the schools applied to fit well into that category. The only thing about Tech and Northern is that Im not sure if I would want to be in the snow that much. I mean, I like winter, I ski/snowboard, but being isolated that far from home with massive amounts of snow might be a little depressing.

    Im not really that close to picking a school my views tend to flip around quite a bit. I started out wanting to go to GVSU, switched to Michigan, then Tech or Northern, then IUB, then GVSU again, then Northwood, now im kind of in between GVSU, Northwood and IUB. As of right now it almost seems that my mind is a giant dice being rolled and Ill end up going to the school it lands on when it comes time to commit.

    Again thank you all for the help.
     
  15. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Twigman,

    reputation is very subjective. If you know where you want to work after college then pick up the phone and call some of the major employers (HR office is a good place to start) in the area and discuss your options with them. One of the biggest mistakes we make moving into the work force is failing to do our homework. Many (if not most) of us attended schools in the local area traditionally and evolved to distance learning due to personal preferences or circumstances. You have a greater set of options.

    Please take a moment to review the following websites:

    www.geteducated.com (sign up and download the freebies)

    www.sreb.org

    Jonnie's distance learning page:
    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/2386/distance.html

    A sad fact of name recognition is that many schools are recognized not for their stellar academics but for the athletic programs. And folks will have opinions formed based upon the success of these programs.

    You will also find a distinct culture in the workforce around the college you attend. here in the deep south if your degree isn't from the state you live in or at least from an SEC school you will have a tough time. I work with folks who hold MIT, Stanford, and Harvard degrees (including advanced degrees from these schools). A sort of reverse degree pedigree snobbery takes place here which I find interesting since who wouldn't want to attend an elite university. Nonetheless, it does exist.

    I also will make the same recommendation that I recently made to a friend's son. If you can only complete one degree what do you want the diploma to read?

    Best of luck with your decision, but do take the time you need.

    Regards,
     
  16. KariS

    KariS New Member

    It is the same school. they have three campuses ( http://www.northwood.edu/aboutus/directions/ )
     
  17. tribilin80

    tribilin80 Member

    have you looked into......Financial Aid for public service

    the abvious option to me would be ROTC, but is not the only one...


    California offers limited scholoarships for certain programs if you agree to serve in a state public service after graduation for 1-2 yrs depending on scholarship. added beneefit is employment and opportunity for experience after graduation.

    I would hope other states would offer similar programs.

    As many baby boomers are nearing retirement within the next 10 years the federal government has significantly expanded the "intern" programs accross ALL depertments and agencies.

    This means college students can gain significant experience (depending of agency/departement chosen) and additional cash during college years.

    good thing is there are so many oportunities for smart students like you and forums like these offer you the added benefit of networking or seeking advice from people across the nation. (not available a few years back)

    good luck to you,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2008

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