AACSB-Endorsed Post-Doctoral Bridge to Business Programs

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by iheartlearning, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. iheartlearning

    iheartlearning New Member

    Hello All:

    I'm not really new around here but am new to all of you. :) I've been a lurker for about a year and have enjoyed getting to know SurfDoctor, Rich Douglas, Ted Heiks, SteveFoerster, Kizmet, Randell1234, Maniac Craniac and many other regulars through your posts. I finally decided it was time to tap into the wonderful experience and expertise available in this community.

    A brief bit of background: I was considering applying to traditional/on-ground business management Ph.D. programs until I realized that I really did not want to endure being a poor starving student for 5 years. I work in technology and felt that the opportunity cost involved in giving that up in favor of many lean, mean years as a full-time student living on a small stipend was just not compelling enough. Long story short, I opted to apply to Northeastern's low-residency Ed.D. program in Organizational Leadership Studies and have been accepted.

    My ultimate aim, though, is to secure a full-time teaching position at an overseas university where I intend to teach management courses in their business department.

    A few points about my goal: I have read in this forum that there is some disagreement as to whether or not those of us who graduate from DL programs are able to secure full-time teaching positions. I have done a bit of research on this and have found individuals who've graduated from the likes of Argosy teaching full-time at California State universities, for instance. Also, I've read that there is a serious shortage of business professors (apologies for not being able to find a more current article: A Shortage of Business Professors Leads to 6-Figure Salaries for New Ph.D.'s - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education) so that leads me to wonder whether beggars can really be choosers, so to speak.

    So putting all of that together brings me to my questions. I've done a search or two on this site but didn't turn up anything on my forthcoming questions. Alas, here they are:

    1. Has anyone had any experience completing the AACSB-Endorsed Post-Doctoral Bridge to Business Programs (http://www.aacsb.edu/bridgetobusiness/default.asp)? "From the website: Graduates from an AACSB accredited Post-Doctoral Bridge to Business Program may be classified as Academically Qualified (AQ) [to pursue academic positions] in their disciplines for a period of five years from the date of graduation." I ask because I'm considering completing the short bridge program (it's 7-8 weeks in length) post completion of my doctorate so that I may pursue full-time business teaching positions.

    2. I will be completing an Ed.D. rather than a Ph.D. I am aware of the "Ed.D.'s are a Ph.D.-light" debate, however, while at USC, I had several professors who held Ed.D.'s. Northeastern's faculty webpage also lists several Ed.D.'s--not a preponderance but several nonetheless. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on whether my chances of securing a full-time business professorship might meet a significant roadblock because of the Ed.D. I will share that 3 of the 4 universities that offer the bridge program only require that candidates have earned a doctorate degree of any designation (within particular fields), while the remaining school requires that candidates have earned a Ph.D specifically.

    As a related aside, I am happy to adjunct while moving up the corporate ladder should it be an absolute impossibility to achieve the goal I've shared herein. That said, I am actively pursuing my intended aim and am working to beef up my CV by publishing, presenting and adjuncting (although, so far, securing adjunct gigs has been a long slog, but that's a different matter).

    Thanks for bearing with this long, first post. I appreciate your forthcoming insights.
  2. iheartlearning

    iheartlearning New Member

    Eureka! I may have found my answers in the "Similar Threads" box below. I think I'm set. Many thanks for taking a peek nonetheless.
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I did a bit of research on the subject myself. In short, AACSB schools have two type of faculty:AQ and PQ.
    I presently hold a PQ position at a AACSB accredited school and wanted to apply for AQ position but I hold a non AACSB accredited doctorate.

    I enquire about this post doc certificate and the reality is that technically you don't need it but it helps to show that you are AQ.

    Bottom line is that you need certain publication record in order to become AQ. The EdD could qualify for a business faculty position if you had an impressive business publication record. The Post Doc helps to build this publication record as you are being coached by AQ faculty.

    Your EdD should come from a University that has a business school that is AACSB accredited for you to qualify for this certificate.

    One concern is that Universities are not forced to honor this certificate. In few words, it is up to the employer to make your EdD + Post Doc Bridge = AACSB PhD. My guess is that in some fields with shortages like Finance and Accounting might be easy to use this post doc but not so sure about fields such as HR and Management.

    As for the shortage, the only field that seems to be always in demand is Accounting and Finance. All other fields do not seem to have shortages based on the feedback of PhD graduates.

    I think is not a bad plan to do an EdD and a post doc certificate as long as the EdD is from a school that has an AACSB accredited business school.
  4. 01ajouve

    01ajouve New Member

    I agree - getting a doctorate (PhD) is only worth it if you planning on teaching at a research oriented institution and if it's in the college of business you MUST be AACSB accredited.

    2nd- Getting any program beyond MBA that is AACSB is accredited is impossible.

    I worry because this is an expensive bet to hopefully get picked up by a school like you want after doing the bridge program. Good luck.
  5. 01ajouve

    01ajouve New Member

    any program online past MBA that is for AACSB******
  6. iheartlearning

    iheartlearning New Member

    Thank you both for your comments; much appreciated.

    I am thinking now that I will focus mainly on research and publishing and worry not so much about the post-doctoral bridge program. My interests and passion lie squarely in training and development/adult education/corporate education--areas that span the fields of business and education--and my plan is to conduct research and to publish in these areas. I mention this because I'd quite frankly be happy to teach adult education/organizational behaviour/curriculum and instructional development courses in a university's education department as much as I'd be happy to teach management courses in a business department. We shall see what the future holds.

    Thank you kindly for sharing your insights.
  7. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Hi -

    I think it's wise to re-evaluate your course considering your eventual goal. Short of it is that not doing your dissertation in a business related discipline and building your contacts list while networking in business academia during conferences during your doctoral program will affect your chances of success at landing an academic position in a business department.

    Professorships at good schools are earned by having a solid publication schedule and networking through professional conferences. Your Ed.D program will no doubt give you the right contacts and experiences in that field. It won't help you much save in situations where the disciplines overlap.

    The AACSB bridge program is designed to help senior business professionals with significant experience in the field and a business education to bridge the gap between PQ and AQ designations in order to put exceptional business practitioners into the roles of exceptional business educators. It was generated to bridge the gap between theory and practice. - Not everyone with the right background gets into the bridge program, let alone someone who doesn't.

    So what I'd say is this: While all of the advice in this thread is valid, if the question exists in your mind such that you have to ask it; it's usually a sign that those with real skin in the game will ask those questions about your candidacy plus a whole bunch you didn't know existed yet. Stick with conventional wisdom or at the very least, look at the AACSB distance friendly program at Kennesaw State before you jump feet in to a discipline that sounds related but creates those questions.

    Ah, the lone slightly dissenting opinion. Here I am again.
  8. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    OK, I'll hop in as well...

    There are 2 EdD's on the business faculty where I teach, both with extensive business experience. It can be done.

    That being said, the OP needs has a plan in place to attend and present at the appropriate conferences, work on publication, etc.

    I will second ITJD's opinion, and look at Kennesaw State's ACCSB program, but I'm not as pessimistic about the EdD at Northeastern. Both will work, IMHO.


    Good luck!

  9. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    If the end-game is to teach business, I would look at AACSB business programs. The bridge is to help business professionals move into academia, the post-doc bridge is to move non-business doctoral holders into business programs. I have always that it was odd - if you had someone with a PhD in History and they competed a post-doc program in marketing (6-12 months) would you really select them over someone with a marketing PhD?

    I think these programs might work best for someone that is already teaching at a school and want to change departments. If you already know where you want to go, why go off course to get on course? I think it would make you less competitive in the end.
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Hi Gigi,

    Welcome! Since you've been stalking all of us, you probably know I spent a semester in Northeastern's EdD program. I don't think it's entirely unworkable for your goals, but I do think it's kind of suboptimal. If I were interested in being qualified to become a full time faculty member in a business school abroad, I'd consider Grenoble's DBA first, since it can be done by distance and it's AACSB accredited. It just seems to me to be better than going the wrong direction on purpose and making up for it later through publications and a bridge program.
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Good analysis. There are risks with this decision. One risk is that employers won't buy the EdD + Post Doc Bridge= PhD in Business.

    You cannot expect that someone with an EdD that teaches English as a second language can land a job as Professor in Marketing because a 6 month bridge. Few Universities would buy this.

    The EdD plus post doc bridge would work for someone that has a solid experience background in Business (e.g. HR) and is already teaching HR but just needs to bridge to jump into business schools.

    If someone thinks that a PhD in business from an AACSB school is too hard because the GMAT (e.g 650 for the typical AACSB school). The plan of getting a PhD in History plus post doc bridge might has little chance of success as employers wouln't buy the combo.

    Bottom line is that the Post doc doesn't have to be honored by employers. The Post Doc bridge is not a PhD in business but just helps you to make the transition.
  12. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

    I'm no expert, this advice is possibly worth less than what you're paying for it.

    With that out of the way, read the article referred to in this thread:


    Go into your doctorate with a plan.

    As regards the value of an EdD, I don't know. You say you want to teach overseas, I don't know if the EdD is less valued internationally or what. I have no idea. Generally Northeastern is a decent brand, albeit one that requires a bit of explanation, being not that well known. But certainly a good school.

    The biggest issue that I see is that trying to secure a full time tenure track position with a non traditional degree is going to present challenges, and you have to appreciate that you will be facing additional challenges going in. This is not to say it can't be done, but you have to be careful about how much you stack the deck against you. Not an AACSB degree, not a business doctorate (strictly speaking), not a PhD, not a traditional program. That's a lot of nots.

    You will need to balance this, and you are on the right track with the publications. They are probably the single most valuable thing you can do to offset the "issues" with the degree. Proving you can get external funding would be another, but I'm going to assume that is unrealistic in your circumstances. So publish often and attend major conferences, and good luck.
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    You might want to add to the list "Not in a field with a shortage (e.g. finance and accounting)". Many business schools have about 70% of their students in accounting and finance so these are the fields always looking for professors. General Management professors are not exactly in huge demand.

    I would venture with all these nots if my field was accounting or finance. I have seen people with PhDs in engineering that break into finance and accounting with a CPA or CFA and some publications.

    The reality is that a professor job pays well because it requires a huge commitment and is not easy. Most top schools only accept 10% of the applicants and require at least 5 years of full time commitment.
    Now, we are trying to bypass the low admission rate and 5 years full time commitment with risky plans. I would rather do the EdD + bridge anytime instead of slaving during 5 years and sweating to get admitted with a 650+ GMAT. However, the risk is that you do all this work and you end where you started. On the other hand, a PhD in business from an AACSB accredited school has a high placement rate and leads to a 100K + starting salary.

    There is no free lunch.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2012
  14. foobar

    foobar Member

    My two cents . . .

    Don't be too sure that you can get into a post-doc bridge program with an EdD. The programs are really designed for fields that overlap business disciplines - economics, statistics, psychology, mathematics, where the research methods can carry over to a business discipline.

    There is extreme prejudice against the EdD in AACSB schools and they're not taking all comers in these post-doc programs.
  15. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    Phdproject.org requirements

    Very true. Take a look at the PhD Project, designed to help minorities teach business at universities. Note their requirement for membership and their list of participating schools:

    The PhD Project: Supporting Universities

    Even though they want to get as many minorities as possible involved they do not cut corners. PhD (and possibly Harvard DBA) only. Full time only. The AACSB schools don't play games:

    "If you are seriously considering teaching at the university level as a tenure-track professor, you should attend a full-time doctoral program at an AACSB accredited business school (see Supporting Universities.) Although, part-time and on-line programs are available, students of these programs are not eligible for membership in the The PhD Project Doctoral Students Association. "
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't mind have taken this route if this was a guarantee of a tenure track position. I have seen many graduates that finish their PhD at the wrong time or in the wrong field and then spend another 5 years in post doc positions to eventually end in a far country just to be able to find work.

    The reality is that there is always a risk no matter what decision you make. The part time or online PhD route represents less risk as you get to keep your job and many times use company's money to pay for the doctorate. The worst case scenario is that you stay at the same place and use the doctorate to teach on the side for extra income.

    I agree that the EdD + bridge is a risky proposition but it might represent less risk than taking a 5 year program that could cost a fortune in opportunity cost and it doesn't guarantee that will give you what are you looking for.

    Admission into the Post Doc bridge is also a function of market conditions and demand. The OP might get lucky and get admitted if the application is made in recession times when nobody has the money to spend on this and nobody is hiring in academia.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2012
  17. iheartlearning

    iheartlearning New Member

    Thank you all for your wonderful food for thought.

    Since my original post and after reading your replies, I've focused on submitting queries to relevant trade mags, identifying appropriate academic journals for which I can write, and proposing seminar topics for a few upcoming conferences. So far, I have one article scheduled for upcoming publication in a trade mag and am hoping that several of my other article proposals will be accepted; am awaiting word regarding acceptance (or not) of my conference seminar proposals; and am working on a lit review and a conceptual article to submit to upcoming conferences and journals. I've been a bit busy. ;)

    I do plan to design a research study--the results of which I intend to publish--but that will likely not be ready or executed until later in the year. I'm a full-time worker with only a sliver of free time and an even smaller sliver of an attention span. ;)

    I didn't mention that I'm actually a senior manager of learning in the tech sector (hence my reasoning for thinking I might be the post-doc bridge program's target audience). I teach English to adult English-language-learners after work, as a volunteer at the moment. As an aside, learning about pedagogy through my masters' program was quite useful in both my career as a learning and development professional, and in my avocation as an ESL/EFL instructor. At one point I thought I might head off to far lands to teach English (and even got a job in 2011 at a U.S. Embassy in SE Asia to do just that) but then opted against it for a variety of reasons (one being that I realized I had a passion for pedagogy and adult education in general, more than I did for linguistics and English language learning specifically, which would make making meaningful research/publication contributions in the field of ESL/EFL quite tedious and difficult).

    So I will be working to rack up the publication and speaking credits and, of course, to forge alliances with professionals and academics in my field. We shall see where this all leads me. A good friend said recently, "You can't expend so much focused energy on something without it bearing some kind of fruit." I'm going on the assumption that he's right. ;)

    Another aside: I am actually equally happy to move up the ladder in the corporate world too, quite frankly, as there are many valuable contributions I can make applying theory and research to real world problems. Interestingly enough, many positions in my field--training & development/learning & development/talent management--now regularly ask that candidates hold a masters in a pedagogy/adult education related field. I actually ran across a senior level position that listed that it preferred (required?) candidates with a doctoral degree (here's the listing: Chief Collaboration and Learning Officer - Remote Position). Boy is the world a-changin'.

    Lastly (and I know I have now veered well off topic), I picked up this little gem of a book: Amazon.com: Writing Your Journal Article in Twelve Weeks: A Guide to Academic Publishing Success (9781412957014): Wendy Laura Belcher: Books For anyone who has interest in publishing at all/more, I found this book to be quite useful.

    @SteveFoerster: I did know that you were attending Northeastern (I even "creeped" your website at one point) but did not know that you had chosen not to continue your studies there. Would you mind terribly sharing what prompted you to pause/end your studies?

    Thanks, All, once again, for sharing your insights. I just wanted to follow-up with what I chose to do with the bits of your brain you shared with me. ;)

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