AACSB accredits a Private Unaccredited school in India offering Certificate Programs.

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by dl_mba, Dec 26, 2011.

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  1. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    Indian School Of Business is a Private achool that do not offer Diploma or Degree programs but just Certificate Program in Business. Its is not accredited either by UGC or AICTE (RA Equivalent in India).

    I wonder if AACSB has lowered its standards to accredit Unaccredited Programs and Schools.

    http://www.isb.edu/pgp/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.Shtml#cre

    1) Does AICTE/UGC recognise the ISB’s Post Graduation Programme in Management?

    The ISB neither offers a diploma nor a degree. It is a certificate programme for students with experience. Therefore, we have not sought recognition for our Post Graduate Programme in Management from either the AICTE or the UGC.
     
  2. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

  3. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Yep....pretty impressive lineup!
     
  4. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    Whoever may be the partners, ISB still need to follow the law of the land (getting accredited). ISB till date is Unaccredited in India.

    One of the Eligibility Procedures of AACSB is that the school should be Degree Granting.(ISB do not grant Degrees)

    AACSB Business Accreditation Standards

    B. An institution seeking accreditation by AACSB must offer degree-granting programs in business or management.

    INTERPRETATION:

    To be considered for accreditation the institution must offer programs that result in the awarding of degrees at bachelor's or graduate levels. When available, the institution should have appropriate governmental authorization to grant degrees. Alternatively, documentation should be provided demonstrating authenticity of the degrees granted in business. AACSB International does not accredit institutions that solely award two-year post-secondary degrees (e.g. associate or foundation degrees.)
    --------------

    1. ISB is not accredited by any Government recognized accrediting bodies in India (like UGC and AICTE).
    2. ISB do not grant Degrees or Diplomas (as ISB claims).


    By these standards all .COM schools can get AACSB accreditation. Almost all .com schools Undergrad and Graduate end some even Doctoral degrees. Most of them are Regionally accredited. AACSB should give them accreditation.
     
  5. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    Exactly. As a private good ol'boys club, AACSB can give accreditation to whoever they want, as long as you are willing to jump through their hoops and pay them what they want. It is one of the reasons why EBS refused to play this game, and why other schools are starting to rethink theirs.
     
  6. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Listen. I get where you're coming from and I used to believe the same way, black/white.

    But here's the wonderful thing that teaching in the field does for you.. it makes you aware of the differences between the image that an accrediting body wants to project and the realities of what it is.

    Without getting into horrendous or libelous detail, all I'll say is at least one regional accreditation body staffs its audit teams with faculty from other schools in my area and if you can prove that you're making marginal progress towards your areas of improvement since the last audit and you take the team members to the right places for dinner, you're pretty much assured of maintaining your accreditation because none of those team members wants to piss off the folks that hire at the institution they're auditing.
     
  7. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    You may be right.

    Indians are known worldwide for paying Bribes to get things their way.
    Just search for 2G scam in India, the amount of misappropriation is more than $32 billion. For a poor country its a lot, no wonder 60% of the population is very poor.
    I also read about this guy who is supposed to be present day Gandhi - Anna Hazare who is trying to get some regulations passed by Indian Parliament to stop corruption but the Parliament is reluctant as almost all the Elected representatives will go to Jail (yes India is a Democratic Country - world's biggest).

    Another Interesting note, One of the co-founders of ISB, www.isb.edu Rajat Gupta was involved in the Insider Trading Scam along with Raj Rajaratnam and was arrested by FBI this year.

    http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-26/wall_street/30323577_1_rajat-gupta-rajaratnam-raj-rajaratnam

    No wonder they pulled thie AACSB accreditation scam too by paying them upto their necks. India rocks with Bribes and scams and they proved again with ISB getting AACSB accreditation.

    Just found "$1.4 Trillion India's Black Money Stashed in Swiss Banks"

    $1.4 Trillion India's Black Money Stashed in Swiss Banks

    Black money in Swiss banks mainly from India: Julian Assange - Economic Times

    Looks like Swiss Bank is where all the Outsourcing Money goes from India. Most of the money is from US tax payers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2011
  8. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    That is a very serious accusation to make without presenting even a scintilla of evidence.
     
  9. Intlprof

    Intlprof New Member

    Word on the street

    Word on the street coming from the ACBSP folks (unofficially of course) is that AACSB was losing the game internationally to ACBSP of late. Example is ACBSP has grown internationally and now expanded to comprise enough schools for 3 international regions.

    The word was that AACSB had watered down their process overseas, somehow trying improve their overseas membership which is the new battleground.
     
  10. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    Please read my above posts, AACSB puts it very clear about the recepient school to be Degree granting and no exceptions are listed. ISB is not accredited in India(UGC and AICTE are the two valid accrediting bodies in India), ISB is not a foreign school or part of another AACSB school and offers only Certificate programs.(they do have academic association with some "named" schools) The only other way to get this kind of accreditation is by paying an amount thats not easy to digest by AACSB and their crew.

    This is how they can pay:
    ISB charges $48K for a certificate program(not a Degree or Diploma). This is from a school in a country where average citizen lives on less than a Dollar a day.
    http://www.isb.edu/pgp/Programme_Expenses.Shtml

    If there are any other special exceptions at AACSB, they should publish them on their website or else Its the Indian System of Bribe (again another ISB) which has worked here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2011
  11. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    I've read each post in this thread. Nothing I've read supports allegations of bribery of AACSB officials. Since ISB's program is ranked in the top 15 of the Financial Times of London's MBA rankings, it seems their program is viewed by some (including AACSB, perhaps) as equivalent to an MBA, even if it doesn't actually result in a degree. I suppose you'll simply brush this off with a claim that the FT must have been bribed as well.
     
  12. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    If the Certificate granting school says it clear about the cert not being a Degree or Diploma, any FT ranking will not change a Certificate to a Degree and make the school legally accredited.
    My argument here is AACSB jumped an unknown/invisible fence to grant Accreditation to an Unaccredited Certificate granting school.
     
  13. SB29

    SB29 New Member

    I just stumbled upon this thread and had to answer!!

    I am from India (not from ISB) and have done my MBA from a top 10 programs here. To comment on the scenario here, you need to know how things function.

    In India, degrees (MBA) can be granted only by a university. Almost all top business schools in India are standalone institutions. Sp they grant something called a Post Graduate Diploma in Management (PGDM) and another organization (Association of Indian Universities) grant equivalent status to a university MBA. These standalone institutions do not come under the purview of UGC (which is only for universities).

    When ISB started off, there was no concept of 1 year PGDM in India. All PGDM programs were of 2 years duration. AICTE did not have a provision to recognize a 1 year program. So, ISB started off without accreditation. After few years, other business schools also started offering 1 year program. So, AICTE was forced to accept that 1 year program can also exist and started recognizing the same.

    Why ISB didn't go in for AICTE approval is another story. In recent times, AICTE has played a hindering role in India. AICTE accreditation is more about meeting some randomly decided criteria and not based on quality. You may want to read this:

    Harassment by AICTE: the saga continues - Economy and Politics - livemint.com
    Business Case | How AICTE stymied the expansion of SP Jain - Corporate News - livemint.com

    There are many more articles to be found.

    ISB is a highly respected institution in India. The average GMAT score of the batch entering the school is 720. I think that is one of the highest in the world. The average starting salary of the graduating class is such that they can recover the investment within 1.5-3 years. They have also started a doctoral program in association with INSEAD. It is called Fellow Program in Management as institutions in India can't grant PhD.

    I feel it was not necessary to go into allegations of bribery etc while discussing this unless you have proof of the same.
     
  14. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!

    There's a huge difference between what I posted and the allegations you're bringing to bear. So we're clear:

    1. Any accreditation bureau is going to be run by members with affiliations and associations. That's the case with NEASC, WASC, etc and no doubt includes AACSB, ACBSP etc.

    2. If you've already been fully accredited, then you're going to have lighter accreditation reviews going forward provided you've made progress on any other things going on. Additionally, since most of the auditors for the accreditation bureaus are also faculty at schools in the region, they're careful not to burn bridges with the administrators that hire faculty at places they audit. There's a conflict of interest there for sure.

    3. Dinners happen. Will they influence decisions pertaining to accreditation? Who knows. I think they do because there's a clear conflict of interest resident in point two above. In those types of cases you need to be skeptical of intent. Only way not to be is to keep things at arms length, which doesn't happen.

    On to AACSB.. I have no experience with AACSB accreditation and can't say these things happen with them for certain, but it seems likely based on my experience with bureaus in general. All that said:

    1. ISB is partnered with the best of the best in terms of schools. If those schools are AACSB accredited and deliver a good amount of the curriculum in support of ISB, then you could largely say that there's a precedent to accredit ISB.

    2. If you're going to levy full on charges of corruption you need proof. Freedom of speech does not mean you're free from litigation if you're wrong. No one is going to go after you for expressing yourself, but if you're going to post stuff that straight up says "You are corrupt" you better be able to prove it or you're going to get hit with slander.

    What's your stake in the whole thing anyway DL?

    ITJD
     
  15. okydd

    okydd New Member

    the University of Wales came to mine, a venerable institution than lend out it validation process to unaccredited unsavory institutions. I do not know enough about aacsb, that was made clear in an earlier thread on the value of aacsb.'s accreditation. From my profession development in accounting and business ethics, I have learned that Gupta was an unethical character. I doubt I will every want to be employed by an organization where he is a principal. India is know for its educational institutions of high standards but India is also known for its corrupts institutions. A poster said IB is respected, so is NCU, Phoenix ets, give them Aacsb accreditation. It seems to be a highly unusual move by aacsb. With only 5% of business schools members of aascb, aascb has to look ofter it's own bottom line. In this situation it is best just to follow the money without making any allegations.*
    Some Economic and Ethical Issues Involved in AACSB Accreditation by Robert McGee :: SSRN
     
  16. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    I always stand for what is "Right". It is clear here that AACSB has granted Accreditation to an Unaccredited non-degree granting school.
    A lot of people spend a lot more money(compared to attending non-AACSB schools) to attend a AACSB accredited school to get good education and here AACSB is granting accreditation to an Unaccredited school and which does not meet their Eligibility criteria. This is a slap on the face to all those people who believe in the high standards of AACSB and their ethics.
    The whole world knows the only way Indians get things done is through "Bribes". I do believe in that.
     
  17. ChiSquare

    ChiSquare New Member

    IMD (International Institute for Management Development) is in similar situation: it is private business school and it is not part of any swiss university with federal accreditation.

    But it has triple business accreditation (AACSB, AMBA, EQUIS) and it is one of the top european business schools, it was even no. 1 in the world in some rankings.
     
  18. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    IMD is a Degree granting school unlike ISB in India which is Certificate Granting(does not offer Degree or Diploma).
     
  19. ChiSquare

    ChiSquare New Member

    OK, but degrees from IMD are not accredited in Switzerland.
     
  20. dl_mba

    dl_mba Member

    You mean this proves that AACSB has started accrediting Unaccredited Schools and Non-Degree granting schools?
     

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