AAACSB-accredited DL Doctorate programs?

Issues Same in Education

The same issues are true in education. Recently there was a report in the Chronicle of Higher Education from some think tank that suggested similar things. I can still remember years ago the president of a community college I knew was taking a doctoral class on the community college from a 25 year old Ph.D. He said it was hilarious how little the kid knew about the topic. And the KID was the professor. So, you know what he did... like what we all did... he tried discussion the issues in class. When that didn't work (conflicted with the 25 year olds text knowledge), my president friend just regurgitated the pablum back at him.

 

Here are some pretty good sources:

Burke, Joseph and Minassians, H. (2002). Reporting higher education results: Missing links in
the performance chain. New Directions for Institutional Research, No. 116. Jossey-Bass
Publishers.

Council of Regional Accrediting Commissions (2003). Regional Accreditation and Student
Learning: A Guide for Institutions and Evaluators.

Council for Higher Education Accreditation(2003). Statement of Mutual Responsibilities for
Student Learning Outcomes: Accreditation, Institutions and Programs.

Commission on Higher Education, Middle States Association(2003). Student Learning
Assessment: Options and Resources.

Eaton, J.S. (2000). International quality review and accreditation: The role of CHEA
accreditors. Washington, D.C.:CHEA

Eaton, Judith S. (2003). Is Accreditation Accountable? The Continuing Conversation Between
Accreditation and the Federal Government, Council for Higher Education Accreditation

Hayward, F.M. CHEA: Multi-lateral agreements. Available at www.chea.org

Massy, William F. (2003). Academic Audit for Accountability and Improvement. (forthcoming
chapter in book on Accountability, edited by Joseph Burke).

Massy, William F. (2003). Honoring the Trust: Quality and Cost Containment in Higher
Education.

National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities. Final Report of the Task Force
on Appropriate Accountability: Regulations(1994). The Responsibilities of Independence:
Appropriate Accountability through Self-Regulation.

Ratcliff, J.L., Lubinescu, E. and Gaffney, M. (2001). How accreditation influences assessment.
New Directions in Higher Education, Number 113. San Francisco: Jossey Bass.

Volkwein, J.F., Shibley, L.R., Mockiene, B. and Volkwein, V.A., (May 2003) Comparing the
Costs and Benefits of Re-Accreditation Processes at Public and Private Universities. Research
paper presented at the AIR Forum, Tampa, Florida.

Van Damme, D., Marginson, S., Singh, M. (2002). International quality review: Values,
opportunities, and issues: Papers presented to the CHEA 2002 International seminar. CHEA.

Wergin, Jon (2003). Regional Accreditation and Student Learning: Preparing Teams for
Effective Deliberation. Council of Regional Accrediting Commissions.

Wolff, Ralph (1993), “Restoring the Credibility of Accreditation,” Trusteeship,
November/December.

Young, K., Chambers, C., Kells, H. (1983). Understanding Accreditation, Jossey Bass.

 

By the way, TUI and some other schools are not for profit. I am not sure if for/not-profit is a relevelant criterion. I think that the value of faculty may be the most important one.

 

A for-profit institution has but one goal: profit. When this goal is mixed with education, the interests of the students and professors may not be easily to accomplish.

 

Hi All,

First of all, I wanted to say that I know this is post is somewhat off topic since this thread is about doctoral DL programs (and I apologize for this in advance). However I thought that some of the information below might be useful. Hopefully this info hasn't been posted to this board before (I performed a search and couldn't find anything).

Earlier on in this thread, someone was asking about the reputations of certain European/UK schools vs. TUI and Nova. Thought some of you might be interested in seeing the Economist's most recent ranking of global MBAs. (Note - this is a ranking of MBAs in general - not only those offering DL - and this ranking certainly has nothing to do with DL doctoral programs. However I thought the ranking might still be of some use since it gives you an idea of how at least one publication has ranked these schools.) I would provide a link, but this information is only posted on the subscriber section of the site (so I had to do the old "copy and paste" bit instead).

A number of the European/UK schools were ranked quite high (e.g. Manchester, Warwick, Henley, Imperial - sorry, guess those are all UK examples). So as someone commented earlier on in this thread, these schools are highly regarded b&m schools that also happen to offer DL.

I believe this ranking was compiled based on feedback from students (taking into consideration things such as: salary increase after completion, learing experience, networking, etc.). If anyone is interested in more details, I can certainly post them (but would probably put this in a new thread).

Northwestern University - Kellogg School of Management 1
Stanford Graduate School of Business 2
Dartmouth College - Tuck School of Business 3
Harvard Business School 4
IMD - International Institute for Management Development 5
Chicago, University of - Graduate School of Business 6
Columbia Business School 7
Pennsylvania, University of - Wharton School 8
IESE Business School - University of Navarra 9
New York University - Leonard N Stern School of Business 10
Michigan, University of - Stephen M. Ross School of Business 11
Virginia, University of - Darden Graduate School of Business Administration 12
Duke University - Fuqua School of Business 13
Yale School of Management 14
Vlerick Leuven Gent Management School 15
Massachusetts Institute of Technology - MIT Sloan School of Management 16
Cornell University - Johnson Graduate School of Management 17
UCLA - The Anderson School 18
California at Berkeley, University of - Haas School of Business 19
INSEAD 20
IE - Instituto de Empresa 21
York University - Schulich School of Business 22
Southern California, University of - Marshall School of Business 23
Ohio State University - Fisher College of Business 24
Birmingham, University of - Business School 25
Henley Management College 26
HEC School of Management, Paris 27
Cranfield School of Management 28
Carnegie Mellon University - Tepper School of Business 29
Warwick Business School 30
London Business School 31
Edinburgh, University of - Management School 32
Emory University - Goizueta Business School 33
Washington University in St Louis - Olin School of Business 34
ESADE Business School 35
Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, University of - College of Commerce and Business Administration 36
North Carolina at Chapel Hill, University of - Kenan-Flagler Business School 37
Iowa, University of - Henry B Tippie School of Management 38
Notre Dame, University of - Mendoza College of Business 39
Oxford, University of - Saïd Business School 40
Georgetown University - Robert Emmet McDonough School of Business 41
Imperial College London - Tanaka Business School 42
Bath, University of - School of Management 43
Aston Business School 44
Texas at Austin, University of - McCombs School of Business 45
Minnesota, University of - Carlson School of Management 46
California at Davis, University of - Graduate School of Management 47
Maryland, University of - Robert H Smith School of Business 48
Pennsylvania State University - Smeal College of Business 49
Macquarie Graduate School of Management 50
Purdue University - Krannert Graduate School of Management 51
Lancaster University Management School 52
E.M. Lyon 53
Indiana University - Kelley School of Business 54
Vanderbilt University - Owen Graduate School of Management 55
NIMBAS Graduate School of Management 56
Rice University - Jesse H Jones Graduate School of Management 57
Manchester Business School 58
Hult International Business School 59
Newcastle upon Tyne, University of - Business School 60
Rochester, University of - William E Simon Graduate School of Business 61
Cambridge, University of - Judge Institute of Management 62
Wake Forest University - Babcock Graduate School of Management 63
Indian Institute of Management - Ahmedabad 64
Wisconsin-Madison, University of - Graduate School of Business 65
Sheffield University Management School 66
Strathclyde, University of - Graduate School of Business 67
Hong Kong, University of - School of Business 68
Queen's University - Queen's School of Business 69
British Columbia, University of - Sauder School of Business 70
Case Western Reserve University - Weatherhead School of Management 71
Ashridge 72
Pittsburgh, University of - Joseph M Katz Graduate School of Business 73
Southern Methodist University - Cox School of Business 74
Western Ontario, University of - Richard Ivey School of Business 75
ESSEC Business School 76
Australian Graduate School of Management 77
Durham, University of - Durham Business School 78
Glasgow, University of - School of Business and Management 79
Nottingham, University of - Business School 80
Leeds University Business School 81
ESCP-EAP European School of Management 82
Thunderbird - The Garvin School of International Management 83
International University of Japan - Graduate School of International Management 84
William & Mary, College of 85
Bocconi University - SDA Bocconi School of Management 86
Arizona, University of - Eller College of Management 87
Rotterdam School of Management - Erasmus Graduate School of Business 88
Florida, University of - Warrington College of Business 89
Solvay Business School - Université Libre de Bruxelles 90
City University - Cass Business School 91
Melbourne, University of - Melbourne Business School 92
Nanyang Technological University - Nanyang Business School 93
South Carolina, University of - Moore School of Business 94
China Europe International Business School (CEIBS) 95
Bradford School of Management 96
Georgia, University of - Terry College of Business 97
Nyenrode, Universiteit -The Netherlands Business School 98
International University of Monaco 99
Institut d'Etudes Politiques de Paris - MBA Sciences Po 100

 

This is an interesting thread to me. I admit that I don't quite get the POINT of a Ph.D. in Business or D.B.A, for that matter. Academic business just doesn't seem to have much connection to real business, at least, to a complete (and completely ignorant) outsider (me).

I can see advanced academic reserch degrees in particular things, like, say, international business administration with an emphasis on Chinese-American labor relations or something. I know that Golden Gate University offers a J.S.D. in International Business Law. The University of Washington offers a Ph.D. in the same subject, BTW, but you have to prove up a working knowledge of (YIKES!) Mandrain, Korean, Japanese or another major Oriental language. But I don't see how these programs would have much value outside of the academy or policy levels of gvernment.

Certainly a lawyer advising a multinational client could benefit from an LL.M. in international or comparative business law. We sell a LOT of these degrees to foreign lawyers, for example. But that LL.M. takes two, maybe three semesters to complete and comprises a collection of J.D. classwork. It isn't ANYTHING like a D.B.A. or even GGU's J.S.D. It cetainly isn't any kind of RESEARCH degree.

But doesn't the international businessman, or any businessman for that matter, do better learning his art in the trenches? Does a D.B.A. really HELP?

 

My impression is that doctoral degrees in business are most often intended as qualifications for college teachers. In the last fifty years, it's become increasingly difficult to teach anywhere above the community college level without a doctorate. That union-card-effect is spreading into business schools, particularly those accredited by AACSB.

If you look at practicing executives, most of them don't have doctorates.

The attorneys addressed that problem by simply renaming their practitioner's degree, changing it from LLB to JD, and happily went on teaching with it.

I'm an ignorant outsider too. But the question can be asked: must business education resemble real business?

Can kids really be transformed into good managers by going to school? Might it make more sense to think of management as simply informed common sense? Or perhaps an artist-like creativity with the materials?

If there's any truth to that, then business schools might work best when they provide their students with the best techniques. Perhaps the most efficient role for B-schools is in proving their students with a deep understanding of state-of-the-art tools in technical areas like finance, accounting and business law. It's easy to see the relevance of academic scholarship to that.

If it really is possible to teach kids to be managers, then I'd guess that it's probably the case-study aspect that's most valuable. If you want to train practioners, they are going to need lots of realistic practice. The cutting edge theory has to be brought down to earth and applied to the kind of problems that managers actually face. And how better to get a feeling for what those real-life problems are out there in industry than by recruiting teachers from out of the trenches? That's why I like the idea of business schools hiring part-time MBA-level instructors who have honest-to-god day jobs doing exactly what they are teaching at night.

So maybe the best B-schools are those that strike a balance.

You know Nosborne, the same issues seem to exist for law schools. Can law school really turn a kid into a superior practicing attorney? If so, how?

Does law school take kids who are naturally persuasive and skilled at rhetoric, and then provide them with the tools, a technical understanding of the law? Or can law school actually take a potato and turn him into a skilled courtroom rhetorician?

Who are the most effective law school professors? The ivory-tower constitutional law scholars who publish frequently in journals but who haven't seen the inside of a courtroom in years? Or the overworked deputy DA with a calendar as long as your arm?

 

I think the debate is shifting a bit to street smarts vs. book smarts. I do believe that both are necessary, and though there are some examples one can give on both sides, education is key, as they produce the trends and incidences of an entire world, rather than what one person can expereince on their own.

 

Wow, dating all the way back to 1983. Will look at these as time allows.

Back in 2004 we discussed this here:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13277

Please find the entire article at

(no longer available)

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...=sfla-news-palm

FAU = Florida Atlantic University, a state run aacsb accredited school

SACS = The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.

Here is some information from article

Under pressure from accreditors (SACS), Florida Atlantic University is dismissing 28 business instructors whose qualifications were questioned.


Administrators also note that a business-specific accrediting group, the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business, has approved FAU's program.

It also leaves FAU hustling to find replacements for this fall and still waiting for an all-clear from its accreditor, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools. FAU now has about six months to appease the group or face questioning that eventually could jeopardize FAU's accreditation, a crucial seal of approval tied to eligibility for student aid, professional licenses and transferring course credits.


It was the RA group that questioned the instructor's qualification, NOT THE AACSB!

And yet RA is supposed to be weaker?

Funny, the AACSB said the insructors were qualified and SACS said NO!

Guess who FAU listened to...


Just my opinion

 

Nonetheless, the AACSB is still the gold standard for graduate schools of business. Unlike RA, it's a discipline-specific accreditation process and more rigorous. All AACSB schools of business are also RA. By no means are all RA business schools AACSB. AACSB is simply a higher standard than RA for business programs, only about half as many schools in the U.S. meet the former as meet the latter.

If there's one example where the AACSB was asleep at the wheel and the regional accrediting agency caught it, then fine. But I'm really not sure about this one in Florida. Sometimes regional agencies can be really silly about the 18 graduate credit standards for faculty. I've heard stories of them not counting classes that were obviously right on point to anyone within the field, but because the title of the class didn't look right to their uneducated eyes, they refused to count that course for the required 18. Sometimes highly-qualified educators are tossed out in a most arbitrary manner.

For example, I'll bet that if the RA that oversees the school where I teach were to ever scrutinize my academic background, they'd probably refuse to allow me to teach American or State & Local Government (which I've been teaching for two years in addition to law courses) because I didn't have the 18 graduate credit hours specifically in "government". It might not matter that I have 87 credit hours in law school, at least 50 of which--actually, maybe all of them--could be described as touching heavily or at least partly on "Government", they'd probably chuck most all of them and I wouldn't be teaching here anymore. It wouldn't matter that I have probably the best student evals on the entire campus. It wouldn't matter that I know the subject matter at least as well as the full-time professor here. None of it would matter--they'd probably toss me out also. That may have been the gist of what happened in Florida at the hands of ignorant RA bureaucrats.