A rant about Capella from one of its grads...

I never said everyone was.

I'm big enough to admit I thought that was what you meant by marginal. I can't say I'd feel any different if I entered a program with that kind of student.

I'll take your word for it. I just want to know why someone who can't write a sentence was allowed to graduate from both a bachelors and masters program.

Okay, I've learned my lesson. Read all posts thoroughly before responding.

 

BRANDONEl: I'm big enough to admit I thought that was what you meant by marginal. I can't say I'd feel any different if I entered a program with that kind of student.

SIMON: Perhaps the word marginal does not adequately describe what we are talking about. Would it help if we term the inability to construct coherent sentences in an online doctoral level classroom as being SUBSTANDARD?

BTW, Are you or have you participated in any doctoral or graduate level courses online? With all due respect, it does not appear that you have but please correct me if my assumption is incorrect. However, if you could tolerate paying $4000 for such a course and were mandated to respond to such students without receiving a reciprocal level of feedback and had to endure their gross academic writing deficiencies then I would tip my hat to you and say G-D bless you! However, based on my experiences as well as several of my peers who endured such scenarios I assure you that we were not very happy campers.

BRANDONEL: I'll take your word for it. I just want to know why someone who can't write a sentence was allowed to graduate from both a bachelors and masters program.

SIMON: Well Brandon it does not start at the bachelors or masters level. This process starts in grade school. In our educational system it is very difficult to fail a student or remove them from a degree program for academic reasons other than for committing some grossly heinous level of misconduct or behavior. I am not stating that failing students are never removed from academic programs because at times they are "expelled". However, due to the litigious nature of our society as well as the proclivity to externalize blame for student failures on the educational system in order to rationalize cetain students' lack of motivation or ability, many schools will initiate all sorts of remedial programs in lieu of placing the onus of this failure on students or their families. Sometimes these remedial programs are effective while others are not.

In addition, within academia professors are very concerned with gaining or retaining tenure and are vigilant regarding receiving negative course evaluations from students that may adversely effect their status or positions. Therefore in the past twenty or so years a sizable number of universities and their professors have engaged in such "progressive" policies as "grade escalation" and "social promotion" that has enabled quite a number of students to attain academic degree and educational levels that would have been out of their reach if they were held to fair and customary academic standards. By no means are these ALL the reasons for this current trend of unqualified students obtaining advanced degrees but provides a glimpse of some of the underlying factors involved.

BRANDOEL: Okay, I've learned my lesson. Read all posts thoroughly before responding.

SIMON: Brandon, there is no lesson to be learned. Your intentions are great and are not being questioned. Furthermore, I fully agree that ALL students should be provided with every possiblity to succeed in college including remedial assistance BUT NOT at the graduate level and most specifically not at the doctoral level. When one considers that just about anyone, regardless of academic ability or potential, can be allowed admission into a number of online doctoral programs without possessing the requisite level of capability, in my opinion it is really a questionable practice. I also opine that it is unfair to other academically qualified students who have worked very hard, payed a great deal of money and committed a great deal of their time to reach this goal. Just my perspective.

 

No, it is my fault for misinterpreting your original word.

No, I have not. I am a 19 year old first semester community college student. I'm starting full-time employment come the end of this semester so I am looking into online education. Jack Tracey is helping me find a psychology program that will meet my present needs.

I agree with that. I remember in high school there were people who graduated around age 20 and talked about 7th or 9th or some other grade as the best 2 or 3 years of their life. Passed with mostly Ds, I think.

I see your point and I agree with you.

 

lol

 

I've heard that Capella can be very strict with their program policies and requirements. I heard from a student there that one of her friends, now a former student from the clinical psychology program, was not found to be eligible to finish her doctoral traning because she failed to pass the COMPS twice. Another student was told, by the new chair of the counseling program I believe, that a strictly qualitative dissertation proposal was not acceptable at the doctoral level, and she had to do it all over again. Is this fair? No one said that pursuing a doctoral education at an RA school was going to be easy or without bumps along the way.

Rather than admit some responsibility, some of these students blame their committees and their school for their failure to perform at the doctoral level. Fortunately, I suspect that most of the poor quality students are gone in that gatekeeping course that you mention. Still, schools like NCU, Capella, Touro, Walden and others need to better screen their applicants if they want to avoid difficult students that never belonged in a doctoral program to begin with.

 

James, have you scanned the Human Services vs. psychology thread I started? It's grown to be quite lengthy but you could jump to the end and read the Dean's rules about admitting Human Service graduates to the graduate pscyhology department at one university. I'd be interested in your opinion or feedback on that.

Taken with the other comments above, and what I've experienced in a senior-level undergraduate psychology course, there are many who struggle to write coherently. I didn't realize it was an ongoing issue in graduate school, however. If I ever attain graduate school, I agree that it would bother me to feel, as I sometimes do now, that I am in a class of 40 students with perhaps just 3 or 4 other students who can write.

Our institution has started forcing additional "writing exams" on students prior to graduation. It must be bad out there!

 

The term "Bad" to describe this situation is a euphimism! In fact it is terrible. To be a particpant in an online doctoral class with a significant number of "learners" (I almost slipped and called them students) who cannot write basic coherent sentences is pathetic. Now imagine paying thousands of dollars for this course and then being expected to critique such students "work" online while they offer you absolutely nothing wothwhile in return.

When this matter was broached to my professor he advised me to ignore these students and focus on my work. Quite frankly when an overwhelming number of students in an online doctoral level course are functioning on such a substandard academic level it is not a matter of ignoring the problem but why should any academically capable student be placed in such a uncomfortable and unforgivable position by their respective university. It is the school's responsibilty, not the student with substandard academic competencies, to assure that ALL students in a doctoral level class generally meet the academic standards and criteria for doctoral level work. In addition, the question arises as to how such students even got to the point of taking a comprehensive exam without being "tagged" by their respective doctoral faculty much earlier in their program. This would avoid a situation where such a student can claim that they were misled by faculty by their being given passing grades and being allowed to progress in their doctoral programs.

 

Thanks, Simon. You are quite right.

It appals me to see (Anglophone-origin) persons with ostensible graduate degrees who cannot write standard English. I have run across the idiotic justification that the degree holder in question has, say, an MBA or a science degree, and that holding such a person to any kind of language standard is somehow either irrelevant or unfair.

I'm not talking about typos. I'm not talking about an occasional misspelling (it's e-u-p-h-e-m-i-s-m). I'm talking about the sort of ignant as sh*t (sic) stuff you encountered. This is another reason why I dislike compulsory "discussion" boards with online classes, and why nobody but the Roman army ought to have cohorts.

 

got a good chuckle out of that one... thanks

I had to deal with this issue at UoP and as an online instructor at a technical school. I got all kinds of excuses from the administration as to why these students should continue on but none were truly justifiable. Keeping such students in the classroom is not only a burden to other classmates but it is a disservice to the students themselves. In essence the school perpetuates the myth that all you need is a piece of paper to get ahead in this world when in reality things look much different.

 

That's a huge amount of money for just a fee. What, if anything, does it pay for?

 

Re: Re: A rant about Capella from one of its grads...

Its the same at Touro the last time I took classes there.
2,000 per doctoral level class or 4,000/semester. Touro doesn't require residencies so you can save some money there.

-S

 

How are they handling this problem at Touro? I was in the Health Sciences doctorate and the last time I was there we all had to participate in a discussion forum.

-S

 

I agree it is a bit expensive. At least the counseling program in the Human Services program is CACREP accreditted; the only completely online counseling program in the nation to receive accreditation. As for the weekly assignments, we had to complete two short essays to the weekly topic and two quality responses to another student each week.
The rigor of it I guess depended on your instructor. Some instructors are too lenient and some required highly quality posts (Three or four references per essay and response, at least 600 words, etc). At Capella, it helped me to figure out who was teaching what and enroll in classes with good instructors. Plus, in their I-Guide, there is an additional discussion forum for students to voice their experiences/opinions for each class & program. I found this to be helpful in choosing the right instructor.

-S

 

Re: Re: A rant about Capella from one of its grads...

More specifically, their masters degree program in counseling is CACREP approved.

 

Re: Re: Re: A rant about Capella from one of its grads...

No. Its CACREP *accreditted*.

-S

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: A rant about Capella from one of its grads...

No. Its CACREP *a-c-c-r-e-d-i-t-e-d*.

 

Fortunately, I've not yet come across this problem at Touro. The discussions are always on point and well articulated...which can on occasion lead to boredom

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A rant about Capella from one of its grads...

Yup, and not CACREP *approved* as you said earlier.
And btw, as Uncle Janko indicated in another thread, I hope you can now write e-u-p-h-e-m-i-s-m correctly.


-S

 

Thats good to hear. I always like Touro and their staff. I only changed schools because I decided on pursuing another field of study that was not being offered by the school at the time.
Good luck.

-S

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A rant about Capella from one of its grads...

You are just a little, little, little defensive. However, I forgive you.

BTW, weren't you entertaining the possibility of entering Capella's Organizational Psychology program a few years back. What made you change your mind ?