A question for the Nurses out there..

How is a AA or BSN in nursing from a DL school such as Excelsior recognized in the professional field? I know and work with many RN's, and they have to go through a clinical internship prior to getting their degree and/or license, especially here in NYS.

 

There is a bruhaha going on right now in California, that state will no longer accept Excelsior nursing grads to sit for the boards, if I understand the issue correctly. There is a notice on Excelsior's website right now about it.

Other than that issue, my perception is that Excelsior is accepted in general. One of my instructors from my program, who also happens to be the manager of the Medical ICU at my university hospital got his BSN from Excelsior when it was Regent's and he's never had any problems. Also, my hospital will pay for a BSN and MSN from Excelsior, they recognize it fully.

On other nursing based boards, there appears to be some limited bias against it by nurses themselves, but then again, nurses are known for eating their young more than any other profession that I'm aware of. They can be a vicious group at times, not at all the angels of mercy they profess to be. All Excelsior students pay large fees to do clinicals at Excelsior, whether in the ADN or BSN phase and it sounds to me that they are pretty brutal on them. But then I think they need to be because nursing is such a hands on profession that learning the theory by DL must be difficult without the concurrent clinicals that B&M schools run concurrent with lectures and labs. They must apply the theory in person at the highest level.

All and all, I wouldn't want to attempt the ADN through them or any DL program, maybe the BSN would be fine once you have your RN and have been out in the real work world for a few years.

By the way, nursing school and nursing practice have little to do with each other IMHO. I have yet to apply their massive "critical thinking" theory during a code, one doesn't have time to ponder all those finer points they drill into your head during classes. Also, all their lofty ideas of theory go out the window when your true practice begins because no real life nurse has time to do all the things they teach you that you should do when you're juggling 10 patients and 10 doctors at the same time. You learn very quickly to do what needs to be done to get a good outcome with each patient and that doesn't necessary always include much of the book theory, just good old fast thinking and solid proficiencies and tips from all the old-timers.

Just my .02.

 

I work in the healthcare risk management field, and my clients occasionally ask my opinion about this program.

The major problem with Excelsior is that not all states accept it as qualifying to sit for the licensure boards. I always tell people that if they want to go through this program and work in a particular state, make sure that the state BON accepts it.

Once you get licensed, however, and particularly after some years of experience, most employers could not care less where you went to nursing school. Several of my clients have Excelsior-trained nurses on staff and think they are just fine. I am unaware of any literature showing that Excelsior-trained nurses are any more or less competent than nurses trained at a more conventional nursing school.

My wife worked in Navy medicine for 20 years, and reports that Excelsior is a very popular route for active-duty personnel to get their nursing degree. She says there is certainly no bias against them in the military.

Regards,

Michael Lloyd
Mill Creek, Washington USA

PS: I had to laugh at the previous posters' comment on 'critical thinking', which has been a major buzzword in nursing practice for some years now. On many occasions, people have told me that they don't need no stinkin' special training or competencies to do a particular task, since they were trained in critical thinking! Not wishing to permit them to practice on the patients absent such training, I would have to reluctantly say no. We then critically analyze the decision together.

 

Having received my nursing degree from Excelsior when it was the Regents program I can tell you first hand. I have never had any problem with employment and my degree.

 

Some of the finest nurses I know are Regents grads. None of the idiot nurses I know are Regents grads.

Florida will not accept Regents / Excelsior for licensure unless the nurse was an LPN from a traditional program first due to the lack of clinical component. Well thats what it was a few years ago. There was a cutoff date about six or seven years ago when those in the program could be licensed but new students in the Regents program could not.

While this seems absurd as Regents or whatever they call it today is NLN accredited.

However seekinghelp is really correct, you learn very little in nursing school. You learn by doing. You don't need a care plan for a code. You don't need to spend a lot of time on a nursing diagnosis for a code either, it is FTD ( fixin to die ).

I think a reasonable action would be to let Regents grads work as a GN for six months or so to see if they are idiots, and to give them the required clinical component ( which Regents does not actually lack- it is just arranged by the student ). To seperate the good nurses from the idiots.

I am an RN and I would have no trouble knowing that a Regents nurse was my nurse.

 

If Florida will not accept Excelsior for licensure, that says a lot to me about the quality of their program. Florida is very liberal when it comes to licensing. I understand California not accepting Excelsior since they have the highest standards in the country when it comes to credentials.

 

California and Florida both accept Excelsior for licensure, as long as the applicant was either an LVN/LPN before enrolling at Excelsior (and in CA, fulfills an additional clinical requirement), or was enrolled at Excelsior before a certain date (1994 for FL, 12/6/2003 for CA). So, um, yeah.

DJ

 

If Florida will not accept Excelsior for licensure, that says a lot to me about the quality of their program. Florida is very liberal when it comes to licensing. I understand California not accepting Excelsior since they have the highest standards in the country when it comes to credentials.

 

I really don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Florida is not 'very liberal' when it comes to licensing. Nor is California the holder of the highest standards when it comes to licensing. ( Non-ABA JD comes to mind.)

The fact that Florida will not accept Regents/Excelsior graduates that were not previously LPN/LVNs really says nothing about the quality of the program. It does reflect on the Florida rules but I feel you are drawing an improper inference when you say it reflects on the program.


I am a Regents RN and I am licensed in Florida and have been such for more than 13 years.

Admission to Excelsior's RN program is not open admission as it is to their other programs. It is restricted to those with significant patient care experience: paramedics, LPNs, RRT, physicians, Chiropractors and a few others.


I'm not sure if your post was a troll or not, but you really shouldn't jump to conclusions.

 

Jump to conclusions. Aren't we being a little bit sensitive? Please explain why California or Florida will not accept Excelsior grads. Something is obviously wrong with the rigor of their content.

 

MLS, isn't that a Master in Library Science? Seems a fitting degree for an Excelsior Nursing graduate. Did you earn that at Excelsior too? I guess if you don't know a procedure, you have the skills to look it up. Of course, the patient will probably be dead by the time you find out what to do.

 

Completely uncalled for comment, Mr. Bok.

 

Well I resolved my uncertainty about trolling in this discussion.

It is really unfortunate that discussions of late are deteriorating into nonsense. It seems as the board becomes more well known it attracts the undesirable elements from its predecessors.

It disappoints me that those who joined this board ostensibly to further the education or impart their wisdom feel the need to result to ad hominem attacks. I'm not angered, just remarkably disappointed.

I had hoped for so much more.

 

I note that in another thread, 'Dr.' Bok reports that he is a kinesiology major who just started at Cal State Fullerton after receiving his AA degree at a local community college. 'Dr.' Bok was disappointed that many of his credits were not accepted for transfer.

So while 'Dr.' Bok is certainly entitled to his opinion, it does not appear as if his opinion is an informed one, based upon extensive experience or academic training in the healthcare field, much less in nursing. If I am in error in this assessment, perhaps he will post a precis of his credentials so that we can better weigh the merits of his opinions.

Regards,

Michael Lloyd
Mill Creek, Washington USA

 

For whatever reason, Dr. Bok is VERY anti-Excelsior. He posts this in another thread:


Please expalin why anyone would want to attend Excelsior. Florida and California are no longer accepting their Nursing grads. What other majors will be next. I certainly wouldn't want to earn a Psychology degree from the likes of this University. I guess, to each their own. Some people have money to throw away.



My guess is that Dr. Bok was bested by an Excelsior grad in some way and feels like a revenge is necessary. Who knows?

 

Hey, sounds a little bit like "Dr." Gina - who, last I recall, also did not hold a doctorate degree.

 

But Dr. Gina did note that she is called that by her co-workers in jest.

When Dr.Gina wants to be 6Dr.Gina, then I'll get worried.

 

Loophole?

I noticed in the previous posts that California, Florida and possibly some other states will not accept Excelsior RN grads. Is there a possible loophole if one gets licensed in lets say New York, which is where this nursing school is, and then apply to California, Florida, etc based on reciprocity?

 

Re: Loophole?

I don't think it would work in California. The California reciprocity application (or "application for licensure by endorsement") at http://www.rn.ca.gov/lca/byendo.htm states that applicants must be graduates of a nursing school that meets all California requirements.

It might be possible to get an ASN from Excelsior, get licensed in another state, then enroll in a California RN-to-BSN program and obtain licensure that way. Of course, you can always get an RN license from another state and work at a VA hospital in California.

There is another DL basic RN program, that is apparently small enough to not appear on the California BRN's radar, of course...

DJ (glad I enrolled in Excelsior's RN program before the deadline!)

 

This is true....It is only a nickname that I have at work, because I am CONSTANTLY confused for a physican by patients and staff alike ( guess I look like one). I am actually finishing up my 2nd year of doctoral studies at Adelphi University.