4 Week BA

Discussion in 'CLEP, DANTES, and Other Exams for Credit' started by Lewchuk, Aug 1, 2001.

  1. EsqPhD

    EsqPhD member

    I don't think my comment was meant to insult anyone. I only listed my area of studies in my Bachelor's for the discussion as it applied to what I've experienced (I do not claim to know much more than that and have honestly not read any other threads regarding the BA in 4 weeks until today). I'm not opposed to the BA proficiency exam as stated in my previous response.

    By the type of response above, I will now stay out of what seems to be a potentially volatile discussion--which usually ends up with more hurt feelings than help.


    On another issue, someone on this forum once commented on why some of us users on degreeinfo don't use "real names." Let me take this opportunity to address that issue as it applies to me. My name and personal information is on several web data bases (because of my several licensures), and knowing my name alone, one can easily ascertain personal information on where I work, my residence, e-mail, phone numbers, etc. I just prefer a little more privacy and anonymity when venturing into e-mail/internet discussion groups, especially not knowing the type of people that may potentially have access to these personal information. While there are good people in every group, I must say that in my experience, even with degreeinfo, I have found that there are many people that I would hesitate in giving out my name to, nevertheless becoming acquaintances in the non internet world.

    For those whom I have befriended in these past few months, especially in more amicable and gentlemanly discussions, please do not be offended at the anonymity. If you should ever need to actually contact me outside of this forum (either regarding my ministry as an Episcopal priest or in need of a Christian estate planning and tax attorney in California), just let me know and I'll send you my actual name and contact information.

    I hope you don't mind too much Lewchuk that I used this thread to clarify a non related issue.

  2. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member

    Dear EsqPhD,


    I understand your situation, and you certainly have the right to use whatever name or nickname you please. However, please let me politely tell you that you can use a name related to yours without compromising your real identity. For example, you can use just initals, just your first name, just your middle name, or even just your mother's maiden last name. Alternatively, you can modifidy your full name a litte bit to give the impression of being another person; for instance, you can use your middle name and then your mother's maiden last name. Alternatively, you can translate your names to foreign languages.

    EsqPhD, please don't take my comments the wrong way. You don't have to do what I said; I am just expressing my opinion on these issues.

    Very best wishes,

    Karlos Alberto Lacaye
    [email protected]
  3. Caballero Lacaye

    Caballero Lacaye New Member

    P.S.: Modifidy should read modify.
  4. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

  5. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    Half... unlikely, I will tell you why. The CPA exam cuts a wide swath... Tax, Audit, Ethics, Financial Reporting, Not-for-profit accounting, etc. Of course, no one works for a non-for-profit/for profit in Tax (corporate, personal, etc.), Audit, Compliance and Reporting. If he/she is good at "a" he/she may be able to pass "a" with very little study but will be back to ground zero on many of the other topics.

  6. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    OK, lets say that a person is so gifted that they can outperform the average preparation time of a course by 75% (instead of 50hrs per credit, 12.5hrs)... no small feat, we are probably talking close to a couple std devs out there. This means that it would take 1,500 hrs to complete a legitimate BA.

    Now, lets covert this to a calendar year. 1,500 hrs is working 30 hrs a week for a year. You say that 90% can complete your program in a year.

    So 90% can complete your BA but only a small fraction of people (i.e. those who can shave 75% off the average) can complete a legitimate BA.

    I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to see that we are not comparing apples with apples here.

    Now, this world is a strange place and I am not saying that the 4wk BA is not accredited, won't get you into some(many) grad schools, etc. but lets not pretend that the education is equivalent.

  7. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member


    My undergrad was in the humanities but my opinion is the same.
    1) Great concept if the tests are at a resonably high level.
    2) I can't imagine how a person could demonstrate this in these "unrealistic" periods of time.

  8. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    Thanks for your insight. Regarding this topic I wish we had more individuals with undergraduate degrees from good schools who could comment upon condensing their period of study/preparation to 4 weeks.

  9. EsqPhD

    EsqPhD member

    Thanks--and I don't take it the wrong way at all. I understand what you mean and may just do that if I have another user name.

  10. Alex

    Alex New Member

    Your 6000-hour estimate was pretty close to my BA experience at an Ivy league school. I completed 126 hours at the school (not including credit by exam and summer classes taken elsewhere). I generally studied 40-50 hours per week, or about 630 hours during a 14-week term. Over eight semesters this would be about 5040 hours. Add in the approximately 220 classroom hours for 5260 hours. (Actual classroom hours would be somewhat higher since lab hours don't receive as many credit hours.)

    Now, with credit by exam and by transferring credits, I could have spent less than eight semesters at the school and still completed a degree there. I could also have studied fewer hours and still passed the classes. But a much "shorter" degree would not have allowed me to take as many courses of interest. With less study time, the degree might not have been with highest honors, nor in a major requiring as much math and science as mine did. My goal was not the quickest degree possible, but the degree that would best serve my needs and interests. For some people, speed may be more of a consideration.

  11. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    Remember that for most, the BA in 4 weeks will not be new learning. Also worth pointing out that my experience of new learning,
    doing HNC, HD, AND Liberal Art degrees (a new departure for me), indicated learning times much less than 10% of official times.
    No Ken. Those who complete the degree already posses much of the required knowledge. Study is a matter of revision of existing knowledge.

    Well, how would we measure relative competency, Ken? You have stated that the education is unequal, yet, once again, you have offered
    no evidence. How does one assess "a good education" except in terms of measurable outcomes?

    Let us look to some sort of assessment where the two groups compete, those with the BA in 4 weeks and those with the BA in 4 years.

    What can we use as a metric?

    Well, I suggested relative performance in graduate school, where there in no evidence of under performance on the part of the
    BA-in-4-Weekers, but you poo poo'ed that. Then how about relative performance in Graduate Record Examination subject exams?

    The history of performance of BA-in-4-Weekers in these exams seems to be very good.

    When I sat down to compete directly with all these BA-in-4-year superior educated folks, in two of these graduate subject exams, I scored better than 96% of
    them on one, and 92-94% of them on another. Here we have some rough objective measure of relative performance on a level playing field, in
    a major subject oriented exam.

    And my performance is far from unique for USNY/Regents/COSC students (TESC doesn't credit these exams). Many others have done the
    same. Every year, many Excelsior (formally Regents) students earn 30 credits from these exams. To achieve that they are required to score
    above the 80th percentile. That is, to do better than four fifths of their better educated brethren, and they manage that feat consistently.

    No, the truth is there is no evidence of lack of academic competence on the part of BA-in-4-weekers. I am amazed at those who suggest
    they "feel" there is, yet whose own education experience apparently never taught them the need for research, evidence, analyses, and

    They "feel" it can't be so. They "imagine" it must be inferior. They bluster, posture and pontificate, but at no time get off their lazy duff to
    assemble a coherent argument based on facts.
  12. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    50 hrs a credit is the standard rule of thumb. If you were a professor creating the curriculum for a course and you came up with approx. 100 hrs for an average student, you would either increase the course content or reduce the number of credit hours.

    Now lets consider your situation. Even after "trimming" your degree you are still light years from the "1yr" that L says 90% could complete it in (of course, I would think that an honor student from an Ivy would be in L 15% category which means you should have finished your degree in a month). So logically we have three alternatives: a) L is incorrect and you cannot finish his degree in the length he says b) you are a very dim wit c) his degree and your degree are too different things. Now I don't have any reason to doubt that you could finish his degree in 4 weeks. I don't believe a honors Ivy is less intelligent than 90%. So, guess what?

  13. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    This is getting so stupid, I am growing tired of this silliness.

  14. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    BA in 4 Weeks is primarily written to benefit experienced adults who are and probably have always been, intellectually curious. Many will already have covered much of the work in the degree as it is detailed in the guide. This is not new learning, it is revision.

    Again, I expend about 12000 words with data in the guide, explaining how one can earn a legitimate BA degree in 4 weeks or longer. I have asked you to provide some evidence of verifiable differences in academic competency between the two groups (traditional BA graduates v BA graduates by examination). You could offer none, because there are none. There is no evidence to support your assertions. They are baseless.

    By the way, Ken, where did you do your bachelor's degree? I am getting a little sick of various people who are willing to pontificate on their alleged superiority under assumed names, but shy away when asked about the details of their degrees.

    All of my details and even grades, are laid out in BA in 4 Weeks for anyone to critique: where can I find the details of the various an sundry anonymous pontificators? Where are yours, Ken, hmm?
  15. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    Yes, that is certainly a way of avoiding providing evidence accusations. The truth is you are on a hook and you do not know how to retrieve a bankrupt position.

    No Ken, I am asking you for evidence of your assertion that exam BA graduates are academically less competent than those who have gone the traditional route. That is your position, it is your assertion, now provide evidence to support it.

    What can we use as a metric?

    how about relative performance in Graduate
    Record Examination subject exams?
    But the suggestion was for the use of Graduate Record exams, Ken, let's stay on the same page here. In fact, the graduate record subject exam seeks to measure competence of graduates in particular disciplines. It is a direct measure of academic competence in that area of study. Why are you running away from that?
    (relative performance in GRE subject exams - LM)

    No Ken, it is directly applicable and relevant to the issue under discussion. Saying it is irreverent cannot change that obvious fact.

    Well Ken, saying it is a fallacy without explaining why you think it is a fallacy, helps no one. And again, in this particular segment, the issue was the validity of Graduate Record subject exams as indicators of academic competency in the relevant discipline.

    Yes Ken, I think I may have around twenty years on you in the maturity area, but let us avoid this sort of juvenile self indulgence. You have been asked ad nauseam to provide evidence of exam based BA graduate academic inferiority relative to traditional graduates. You could not do so. All we have had is one unsubstantiated accusation after another, punctuated by irrelevant personal abuse. I will offer you one last chance to substantiate your claims. Please provide some evidence of the academic inferiority of exam based bachelor degree graduates. Do it now.

    [By the way, Ken, where did you get you bachelor degree? In what subject?]

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