Touro or Univ. of Glasgow?

Ed: Let me try to get this thread back on track by addressing your original question.

I think it is clear that the University of Glasgow, UK, has a better academic reputation than Touro University International. As Eli points out, it's hard to build in four years what another school has built in 550 years! I'm very proud to be a part of Touro (as a student), but I'm not delusional about their current position in academia.

But I don't think this gets to the heart of your question. If you're feeling a little "overwhelmed" with the academic requirements of Touro (which I can relate to), I don't know that going to the University of Glasgow will really change much. In fact, I think going to an overseas school could make things even more challenging. At least at TUI, you know exactly what is expected of you and you know that the faculty at TUI really want to help you to succeed. You are Touro's priority. At an overseas institution, you might not be their priority. I suspect that you may need to have more motivation and drive at an overseas school just to keep from getting lost in the fray.

There can be some issues to deal with when you have a degree from a foreign university. As Kristie7 inadvertently pointed out, issues of accreditation may need to be explained. In my own work situation, employees with degrees that are not RA have to jump through many hoops to have them officially accepted. It's a pain in the butt, but nothing you can't deal with.

With regard to Kristie7's concerns about AACSB accreditation, as a fellow college teacher you know that prior teaching experience, academic reputation and publications are far more important. I assume that if this type of accreditation was important to you, you wouldn't be asking about the University of Glasgow in the first place.

Any serious doctoral degree program is going to be a challenge. Looking at other schools after you've begun isn't that uncommon. In marketing, it's called "buyer's remorse." I think that the more you look around, the more pleased you will be with the decision you've already made.

Best of luck,

 

Re: Re: Touro or Univ. of Glasgow?

"About AACSB accreditation, as a fellow college teacher you know that prior teaching experience, academic reputation and publications are far more important. I assume that if this type of accreditation was important to you, you wouldn't be asking about the University of Glasgow in the first place."

____________________________________________________

This statement is very true. The AACSB accreditation is very important to a certain extent. I do believe that real life/teaching experience and an impeccable publication record will make-up for the difference for not achieving a degree from Non-AACSB accredited school.

Presently, I am an Adjunct Professor for a State University that holds the AACSB accreditation. I have been promised a full-time teaching position once I have completed my DBA from Argosy University.

 

Re: Re: Re: Touro or Univ. of Glasgow?

I believe that a TUI or Argosy degree can satisfy most of the needs of a middle age established professor. However, at least in Canada, Glasgow is considered a top tier university that wouldn't be questioned or have to be defended as a virtual degree from let's say TUI.

I don't know the level of TUI, but if the person is thinking that going to Glasgow is going to make it easier, he or she will be very dissapointed. Top tier UK universities are very hard and not easy at all.

 

Thanks

Steve:

Thank you for your post. Your answer was exactly the thoughts I was looking for. I think my feelings are more of overwhelmed experiences from beginning the demands of the program. It is important to understand the provisions you have to make to complete the work. You really have to schedule time and dedicate to the requirements. TUI, I have to say have been extremely understanding and flexible with the requirements to new learners. I do enjoy the TUI Ph.D. program. Maybe I just needed a “little kick to get going”. Thanks for your help and encouraging words.

 

Rfvalve,

IMHO The fact that you are getting a degree from a B&M school on the other side of the world does not make your degree any less virtual than TUI. Its still a virtual degree that has been possible through the virtual program of a B&M school.

yes, getting a virtual degree from USQ or University of Glasgow would have a hell of a lot more weight because of its prestige.

Just my opinion.

-S

 

Bottom line guys, is what you make of it. I have done extensive research on the topic matter and I have seen Waldens' graduates teaching at Yale University.

In the case of the Business program that is question, Donald Kuratko DBA (Nova) is a distinguished professor at Ball State University, which AACSB accredited institution.

Consider the adversities that this guy went through and what he has accomplished would give indication that his merits did outweighed the short falls of not graduating from a AACSB accredited institution.

http://www.bsu.edu/web/ur/distinguished/profs/kuratko.htm

 

Why do you think that AACSB (an American business school accreditation) will add something to the reputation of the University of Glasgow or the University of Oxford? The founding of these universities predates settlement and colonization of the American continent by people from the old world. Henley Management School might need AACSB accreditation to boost its reputation but I don't envisage any benefit that the University of Glasgow will derive from AACSB accreditation.

 

University of Glasgow

The University of Glasgow is one of the oldest universities in the world. I would put it up there with Oxford, Cambridge and St. Andrews any day.

To even compare it with Touro (a virtual university!) would give the scholars at Glasgow quite the chuckle. Adam Smith would be turning in his grave.

A Doctor of Business Administration degree from Glasgow would put you in the top 1% of scholars worldwide.

 

Alternative history?

"Adam Smith would be turning in his grave. "

Interesting that Adam Smith also considered - in the true EBS fashion of measuring outputs not inputs - that it mattered less from whence you got your degree than whether you could do what you purported to be (in a correspondence over the Royal College of Surgeon's attempt to bar medical students who did not have a degree from one of the four Scottish universities and not one of the private colleges, before joining the surgeons' course).

That some future citizen of the Americas denigrated (from ignorance or insular prejudice that if 'ain't known in America it ain't real') his alma mater, Glasgow University, and the home of his distinguished Professorship - and lastly, in his later years his psotion of 'Lord Rector' of the University, I am sure he might have been a trifle irritated and disappointed, given his public and active support in favour of the then colonists against the British government.

You can read his views on the 'recent disturbances' in America in his Wealth of Nations (1776). Indeed, he delayed publication in the hope that a decision one way or the other would have been made, but in the end he decided to publish as it stood. He was happy with the outcome on one level but probably less happy that his proposal for a Union between the UK and the Colonies had not be agreed.

Under the terms of this Union, the London parliament would have had a proportion of MPs from the colonies in proportion of the the GNPs (as we know it today) of each country. He predicted that by about 1890, the London parliament would move from London to New York (and the monarchy with it) as the GNPs changed in their proportions.

Interesting alternative history?

 

I don't think that was the point. Kristie's dilemna is outlined in this thread. To quote,
"My employer will ONLY reimburse AACSB. I can take a leave, and work part time, and they will still reimburse.... too good of an offer to pass up.

Also, I want to work at a California State University, I spoke with the Dean and he said the PhD MUST be from an AACSB school to get a full time position."

While it could be argued that a doctorate from Glasgow will qualify one to teach at a CSU, to persuade an employer to pay for a degree that is against their policy would, at best, require plenty of explaining and arguing with hr personnel who frankly aren't that knowledgable in these matters. Still, it seems to be an option that should be explored.

Tony

 

This reminds me of something else. In the field of psychology,
Appyou can't license yourself as a psychologist if your PhD is not APA accredited in the state of Fl. And APA only accredits American and Canadian universities, so a foreign university will not do no matter how reputable it is.

Thus, an APA accredited degree from Argosy would be a better investment than one from lets say the University of Australia or the University of Glasgow as far as licensing purposes goes here in Fl. Now if your goal is to be a tenured professor at a prestigious school, then a PhD from The University of Glasgow would be much more preferable. Go figure!


-S

 

Re: Amazing insularity

In Montreal Canada we only have one PhD in Business Administration that is given by the local universities. Admission into the program is very tough, and only few students are admitted in each of the business disciples (Finance, Marketing, Accounting, Management Science, MIS, etc.). One of the main reasons for this, is because the academic community believes that keeping few graduates in each discipline facilitates employment after graduation. I wonder if the "degree factory" approach of some the universities can do more harm than good when it comes to graduates employment. Are there any figures on how many PhDs graduate from the virtual schools like Capella, Argosy, TUI or Walden compared to B&Ms?

 

Re: Alternative history?

Did you also know that during World War II, the British government was thinking of moving the capital of the British Empire from London to Toronto... monarchy with it...

 

Small world, you should visit it sometime.

To mention TUI in the same breath as the University of Glasgow is sacrilege. Oxford and Cambridge aren't accredited - obvious diploma mills.

 

Re: University of Glasgow

Wouldn't the actual significance of a scholar's work have far more to do with putting him or her in "the top 1% of scholars worldwide" than the name of their graduate school?

And might Adam Smith have heartily approved of creating new and innovative educational institutions, and of DL generally. had he had the opportunity to learn of such things?

I wonder if the gap between a DL program out of Glasgow and a DL program out of Touro is as great as is being suggested.

Both would subject one to prejudice against distance learning. That prejudice seems to still be strong in some quarters, particulary when academicians are protecting the status of their beloved doctorates. Professors are people who love to think of themselves as special, and their degree plays a big part in that. Earning a Ph.D. is a rite of passage as much as it's anything, and I think that DL is seen by many as an avoidance of paying the necessary dues.

But there's also a less ad-hominem point to be made. Obviously Glasgow has a distinguished record of research and accomplishment. But one can ask how involved DL students are in all of that. Do students half the world away participate in any collaborative research being undertaken back in Scotland? Or are they lone-rangers, working solitarily on their own individual dissertation topic?

If there is no involvement with the work being done at the main campus, a dissertation written for Touro is just as significant as a dissertation written for Glasgow, except that in the latter case students can become free-riders on the prestige of things that they have nothing to do with.

A virtual degree is a virtual degree, no matter who grants it.

Of course, a DL degree might be a great deal more than a "virtual degree" in this minimal "solitary dissertation" sense, but that would depend on a university's ability to involve remote students and make them integral participants in its intellectual life, full participants in a creative community of scholars.

That means that rather than genuflecting before the University of Glasgow's name, one might try investigating the actual nature of the programs that it offers.

 

Re: Re: University of Glasgow

Can anyone tell us if TUI faculty is involved in any serious research? Can you give us some links to papers published by TUI faculty? Do they have research groups? Do faculty members and students are encouraged to attend conferences and present papers?. The quality of the faculty makes a lot of difference when preparing a dissertation. I have learned a lot from my supervisor as he is a established researcher with many papers published in serious journals.

 

Firing at shadows

Hi Bill

I think this thread got diverted because a member of this board in northern California appeared to be uninformed (ignorant may have too perjorative a tone to it) of the credentials of the University of Glasgow. He/she thought it might be a degree mill, despite knowing it had a 550 year old history.

Most of us have heard of Sacramento, so I suppose we should put this down to US citizens' insularity - if it is not in the US it doesn't matter to some Americans.

Now, forgive me, but some of us non-US citizens find disrespect for our ancient Scottish and UK institutions somewhat disrespectful and, having said that, I am probably the last person who could ever be accused on 'anti-Americanism' (see my postings on this and several other boards in support of the US/UK strategy to disarm Iraq and my oft repeated praise - and familiarity - with the US Constitution (including the federalist papers).
I agree with your last remarks that the real issue is about the credibility of each institution's product, not that I am aware of any criticism of Touro's.

A new student enters a PhD programme and suffers from first term nerves. Looking around is one option - I have seen it many times before - and going to another institution, like Glasgow required assurance that such a choice would do no harm. But whether it is a good option - in these circumstances it rarely is - is another question. We never got onto that because our 'uninformed' friend opened up on one of the most prestiguous universities that we have in Scotland (and, once again, I have no connection with it). He/she has blustered his or her way out of that faux pas, when a simple apology would have done.

Lesson: don't shoot at the first shadow that comes into your cross hairs.

 

<sigh> Still busy bashing TUI there, RFVALVE? B-)

Keeping in mind that you are employed by another
school ... correct? So there's NO bias right? B-)

And that we are comparing a VERY new program
with an established one that is 550 years old ...

Not exactly apples and oranges quite yet?

While I have no idea of what every faculty/student
of TUI is doing (do you?), last session I was part of
a research group that worked with a university in
Europe on a major project. Was quite interesting.

I know Dr. Gold writes, speaks, and has several
projects underway. Other profs seem to be very
busy with other similar interests ...

Reality is ... no matter what the reply, you are
still going to continue your present bashing rage
against this new school.

Let's see ...
First it was the course content ...
Then it was admissions ...
Now it's faculty/research ...

Can't wait to see what you protest next ...

Billy

Current TUI student

 

Re: Firing at shadows

 

Re: Re: Firing at shadows