Dead EJD? Older article...

I will argue that a working knowledge of the law is critical in the health care setting. Additionally, there are courses of study and certifications in legal nursing. I can see perfectly how nursing academics would have zero problems with a nurse educator that holds an EJD, DCJ, JD, and/or background in law. There are so many legal pitfalls in healthcare that need addressing in nursing school. Dr. Crum brings a diversified and much-needed viewpoint to the field of nursing and I applaud her educational achievements and recognize her use of the title "Doctor" in the nursing and healthcare academic setting.

 

Your argument is a persuasive one. First, I apologize for any perceived belittlement of Dr. Crum's achievements - and thanks to you, I am more aware of how useful legal knowledge can be in the health setting. And yes - I was overzealous in criticizing the "Dr." title. I still believe a JD should never be addressed as "Doctor" in a ward, but this is not the hospital. This is an academic setting and yes - she earned a degree that is legitimately a doctorate - that's what the diploma says, from an accredited school.

I withdraw my earlier remarks - with full apology to all concerned.

 

She should not be called a "doctor" anywhere, not even in academia. The J.D./EJD, despite the term "doctor", is not a doctoral level degree in law. Those who have earned an SJD/JSD are entitled to use the term "Dr."

 

Agreed. It isn't an academic doctorate, either. But this is the kind of thing existing on the edges where standards and norms don't always fully satisfy.

 

OK - And those, like you, Chris, who have earned a Ph.D. are entitled to use the term Dr. pretty well anywhere they see fit - from the Groves of Academe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groves_of_Academe ....to their local bar. But as Alpine pointed out -- Dr. Crum brings valued abilities to the table where she works and for that reason, I'm going to jump off that particular bandwagon. I have to consider the person and the situation - and I thank Alpine for reminding me of this.

Rich is right. It's on the edge. Whatever I say about this - someone will say I'm wrong. So be it. If I'm bound to err, let it be on Dr. Crum's side. She is highly accomplished and performs very valuable work. Now I should let her go do it...

 

I personally believe "Professor" sounds more distinguished than "Dr." and I would prefer that title when I am in the academic setting. However, I would never encourage a Nurse, NP, or PA to use the title "Doctor" in the clinical setting. Although, many will list their credentials on their business card. ie: John Smith, RN, EJD, LNC (Legal Nurse Consultant), or Jane Doe, Ph.D., RN, CNP, etc.

 

The PhD earns the title "doctor" through the degree awarded. This is either a scholarly or professional doctorate.

The health care professional earns the title "doctor" through his/her entry into the appropriate profession. Concurrently, that person is awarded a first professional doctorate. But the degree is not the source of the title.

For example, In the UK, a medical practitioner earns the MB, Bachelor of Medicine, after 6 years of tertiary (beyond high school) training and education. They are called "doctor" in practice, even though their degree is a bachelor's. Why? Because the title is their profession, not their degree.

Also, I would argue that someone who earns the first professional doctorate and fails to gain entry into the profession should not use the title "doctor" in a professional setting. It would be misleading since they did not attain the professional standing associated with it.

 

Barton Associates: Are Nurse Practitioners Called Doctors?
"This coalition of emboldened nurse practitioners also reminded the AMA about “restraint of trade.” In previous situations like this, the U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that the AMA’s behaviors violated the Sherman Antitrust Act. Unfortunately, this battle continues today as the AMA encourages and supports legislation that reserves the title “doctor” for physicians only."
Who is entitled to the title of “doctor”? - PMC (nih.gov)
"So much fuss."

In any case, the academic setting of Dr. Crum embraces the use of the title, "doctor" regardless of our opinions.

 

Interestingly, the National Student Clearing House archives and issues official transcripts for many schools in the US. They have a list of degree titles and abbreviations from the schools that participate in their services to date.
Degree Titles and Abbreviations – Verifications Knowledge Base (studentclearinghouse.info)

 

Should it be MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery)? That's what it is in Jamaica, and I know we adopted the British educational system. Same with our entry level law degree (LL.B).

 

Funny thing is, the UK system addresses surgeons as:
Why are (male) surgeons still addressed as Mr? | The BMJ

 

It's not unusual for professors with law degrees to be called "doctor" in academic settings. Two professors at my university started teaching CJ back when doctoral degrees in CJ and criminology were rare. Their highest degree is a JD, and they were called "doctor."

 

A further question, if a student graduated from a medical school and earned an MD degree, but she never takes the board exam to become a healthcare practitioner, instead, she becomes an employee in a big pharma company. When she is referred to, should her colleagues call her a "Doctor"? Or should HR put "Dr." before her name in the employee database?

 

Opinion: no.

 

There is a possible variant of the Bear Gambit. The eJD holder might convince a particularly rapacious ABA approved school to admit the student to the LL.M. for foreign trained lawyers and qualify for the Bar exam in one or another State. The original Gambit (IIRC) was to take the U. London LL.B. by correspondence and do this.

 

I notice that the format in the “Bio” is peculiar!
https://academics.otc.edu/healthsciences/our-team/michelle-crum/

Addressing someone as Dr. Jane Doe, BSN, EJD in the title is redundant. One would think it should be more like,

Jane Doe, BSN, EJD or Jane Doe, PhD, RN,
and then start the Bio with a simple Dr. Jane Doe……

Also, I’m not sure about the listing of the order of credentials. Jane Doe, EJD, RN would appear correct. I know nurses often list ASN or BSN or MSN on their employee IDs or labcoats. I never really understood it, a simple RN or NP should suffice. Perhaps it has to do with marketing their Magnet Hospital status? I really don’t think the patients give a hoot! Perhaps it is bragging rights to colleagues?
https://www.nursingworld.org/~48fdf9/globalassets/certification/renewals/how-to-display-your-credentials

 

The ANCC also states the highest degree first. Example, Jane Doe, Ph.D., APRN but outside the nursing profession it appears to be Jane Doe, PT, PhD

“Just don’t call me late for dinner!”

 

If you want a state accredited JD, NWCU is half the price and qualifies you to take the California bar. I studied there for a year and enjoyed the classes. I only stopped because I decided to get an MPH instead, but plan to start back again after I complete my doctorate.

 

Only if and when she passes the medical board exam would she be entitled to use the title of "Doctor".