Regional Accreditation Criticized in Congress

Most of the Faculty at KW are Moonlighting for miserable few thousand dollars a year. They normally hold a high paying job at a RA university and use their name to make a little extra cash. Why do they get associated with degree mills are beyond my comprehension, but some people are not very proud of this. If KW had to pay even one full time faculty member with a PhD from harvard, it would make for the complete payroll of the university. Professors at KW are nothing more than name lenders that are willing to put in risk their reputation for few extra bucks. As a matter of fact I think they still charge too much for nothing, 5K is far too much if you compare it with the cost that real universities have to spend for full time salaries with benefits, plus the cost of libraries and facilities. KW only offers a mail box as a facility and part time faculty that only lend their names to put in a catalog to attract students dreaming that they are studying at a real university. Read this article for more information.


http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i31/31a03501.htm

 

RFValve: The Chronicle article gives a certain amount of insight into the rented names phenomenon (I first saw this in Newburgh's stuff). Thanks for the post.

 

Re: Re: RA competition

Not for the faculty, see my previous post with an article for your reference. Faculty at KW make only few thousand a year for their couple hours a week of work at KW. KW's biggest expense is probably marketing in the economist and airplane magazines. I don't think that the full time staff at KW is more than few people running the whole show. Probably a printer in the back room for printing the degrees is their most expensive asset.

 

Wait a minute.

Rich D...you said, "The notion that tuition costs would rise simply because of the accreditation process is absurd."

Think about that...

First, there is a great cost involved in the process and fees.

Second, the demand for an "RA/NA" degree is high...see where I'm going here?

Just a thought...

Is it fair to say to WY or CA, "We don't recognize your state or governing body when it relates to education."

I can't stress enough, the importance of an RA degree in today's market...but it is just that...the "market."

 

just surfing:

Read what I wrote. I didn't deny that accreditation caused higher tuition. Market forces would likely cause that. I said that the accreditation process doesn't add significantly to a school's costs. The article in question tried to argue otherwise, but even its case was very weak, citing costs related to site visits that rose to nearly $100k. Yet the same article complained that these visits only occured every 10 years. That amounts to about 2 K-WU tuition-paying students per year, which wouldn't even dent their bottom line.

Now, to do all the things to become accredited would be costly. That's called being a "university," which K-WU is not.

We're seeing this with Northcentral U. They're having to operate at the level of an accredited school, but they're forced--due to a lack of accreditation--to keep tuition low to attract students willing to take a gamble on the school. When final accreditation comes through, the tuition will rise to meet market levels. But it isn't the burden of the accreditation process that is causing this.

 

Kennedy-Western University: Degree Mill?

I had never heard of Kennedy-Western University until I came to this board. Consequently, the following comments were enlightening:

and:

Frankly, it is beyond my comprehension why someone would pursue an unaccredited degree when RA degrees are readily available at nominal costs.

< shrugs shoulders >

 

Article in today's Times

Based on some of the discussion about costs and reasons why schools choose to accredit I thought this might be of interest, although it is focussed on business schools and the accreditation bodies for MBA's.

Do business schools really need the seal of approval?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-3984-429107,00.html



There's a series of articles in the Times today that tie in with the World MBA Tour. Another one with a focus on DL is "Students at a distance":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-3984-429106,00.html

Brendan

 

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Janko

That's basically why I spent a year and $3000 "at" Trinity. The student who puts down his money for religious study may enter that relationship with even more fuzziness about a school's merits and accreditation than those who enroll for other purposes. Not only may accreditation be a mystery but such a one may feel under a"divine guidance." He is accustomed to functioning in "mysteries"! His enrollment is intertwined with his faith. He may assume that an organization which purports to teach religious virtues and sound character could only be thoroughly honest. It could not be dishonest! And this makes him so vulnerable.

But then comes the clincher, the faculty roster: Oh, see those impressively degreed, highly respected , in Christian circles, faculty members? Why, they just could not on the one hand teach those principles embodied in such as "Thou shalt not lie" and on the other hand remain silent and on board and by the usage of their names even bear a mute witness when their employer hawks accreditational untruths as "world wide acceptance and global accreditation through Liverpool"...OR, so I thought. Then after I realized the mistake of my enrollment, for months my mind labored on the issue of WHY doc grads of DTS or Westminster or Western etc --(((who avoid the use of "foul" language or never touch stong drink and who take great pains to see that each doctrinal componant in their belief system is well supported with proof texts and who in every other way supposedly expend themselves to rigorously represent in word and behavior their view of the Faith,))) -- in this particular capacity "serving" DO NOT, driven by scriptural mandates they preach, cannot avoid, due to of the biblical principles they claim to espouse, rise up like some Godsent prophets and denounce that school's deceptive claim...why have they not said, "look you want to use my name , you want me to grade papers? , OK then be honest or I quit!" Where is the Spirit of Elijah? Where is the Spirit of truth?(alright, calm down Bill, sorry!)

But now I see, yet feel no comfort, as per an application of the Chronicle's assertion: the reward such, in this context, for such doublemindedness is a couple of grand a year! The devoted misguided pay their tuition to the deceptive school and the doubleminded prof takes his cut, and, one wonders if James' remark is not fitting, "Not many of you should act as teachers..we who teach will be judged more strictly" ( Jas 3:1, NIV).

 

Re: Background

Much of what RJT claims, doesn't add up, to me. He claims to be in Human Resources recruiting. Claims that he earns a salary in the "multiple 6 figures". (in HR ya right) Claims that rejecting applicants because they have unaccredited degrees is an unfair hiring practise. etc.

 

Bill Grover: Yeah. I was impressed when I saw Montgomery's name in connection with TTS. Although he's liberal, it's unusual enough to see anyone from my own theological neck of the woods teaching at a "generic" evangelical seminary, that seeing his name made me give more credence for a while (tho not more money, D.g.) to the Newburgh school.
I do not support the "publish or perish" mentality, but I became suspicious when I saw how little the rented names were actually publishing.
BTW, one Lioy (sp?) has his name as editor on somebody's book on the occult. He lists himself as "PhD Trinity Theological Seminary/University of Liverpool." Talk about "dressed in a little brief authority!"
As to your middle wondering about "why graduates...who never touch strong drink...proof texts"--maybe a rationalistic hermeneutic and an unclear distinction between Law and Gospel will do that to a person. hehehe Or maybe the money's just good.

May your glass of tuica always be full, etc. etc.

 

Re: Re: Background

Almost Dr. RJIT contradicts himself quite a lot, he hasn't fininshed a Bachelor's yet but he is already half-way from his Master's . He also has 103 earned credits when many bachelor's degrees programs only have 90 credits. I bet in a couple of weeks he will come up with a brand new PhD coming from his published work at degreeinfo.com.

 

Re: Wait a minute.

"Recognize your state" as being what, exactly?

The federal government does recognize the individual states as being the final arbitor of who can and can't operate a school in that state. That's the licensing function.

But you seem to be suggesting that the federal government is additionally obligated to recognize each of these state-licensed schools as being academically sound. Why should the federal government have to do that, particularly when there is so much evidence to the contrary?

Schools exist to provide education and to provide reliable and socially recognized assessments of the same.

If you are claiming that accreditation is just a scam intended to shake down students, then you will have to provide a convincing argument that accreditation fails to contribute to the above.

I would argue that not only are accredited schools better on average, but that there is very little overlap between the accredited and non-accredited schools. It's actually pretty hard to find any non-accredited schools, even those that grant hordes of doctorates, that actually produce research, publications, engage in scholarly collaborations and the like.

To be blunt, when it comes to the intellectual life of this nation, non-accredited schools almost don't exist. (With a handful of exceptions.) That's despite the fact that a large proportion of the nation's doctorate-granting institutions are non-accredited. (I could make an unkind remark about the market for Ph.D.s here, but I won't.)

Here's a challenge for whoever wants to take it up: Choose any field you like, and then point us to some scholarly contributions made by non-accredited schools. I'm not denying that they exist, but I'm predicting both that you will have to struggle to find them, and that your final list will look pretty anemic.

 

Bill, Bill:

Perhaps this is not guilt by association as you perceive, but an issue of methodology. Could it be that these grad are not so much "lovers of lucre," who peddle their name/credentials for a price---maybe they are using TTS as a tool for ministry. Perhaps in knowing that many students will enroll with Trinity, students who would never enroll in a regionally accredited institution, this becomes a method of expanding their ministry of teaching.

Now I know that you "lost" $3000 at TTS, and I know that you feel bad about the whole thing. But the enemy is not TTS. The enemy is............., well, you know.

Would the ushers come forward please. I want to reveive a special collection for a DegreeInfo member who has a need.

<grin>

 

Bill Grover:
Compared to me, Montgomery's a liberal. So's his synod.
Whatever he's gotch from Potch, whoever this Lioy is he ain't got a doc from Liverpool.
Your point is my point about the holy graduates.
Bill Dayson:
Love the challenge. Love it, love it, love it. Watch 'em stampeding to reply.
Pastor Russell:
If they're using TTS as a tool for ministry, then they're using MDS in Evansville as a tool for ministry too, most of em. If they wanted to reach students who are below par in terms of RA schools, are there truly no honorable ways (NA schools, honestly unaccredited schools...) for them to do this? It is laudable Christian charity on your part to believe that it is the sturdy doing of a distasteful job that leads these men to cash their checks from TTS, MDS, or whatever. I am less sure that it is laudable Christian charity on *their* part, however.

The Carpathian peasant is gonna stay out of the Ohio Valley for the foreseeable future.

 

If what you are doing isn't ethical, is "ministry" really any better justification than avarice?

 

Not on my side of the mountain! It's worser!

 

This comes as a surprise to you! I have never observed any correlatation between faith and honesty. Perhaps your experience is different.

 

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Hi Dennis:

I believe such a relationship between faith and practice does imperfectly exist, yes!

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