Why NCU over TUI for Ph.D or DBA?

For you, it might not be too late to transfer to the consortium PhD in Technology Management offered by Indiana State, Bowling Green, Central Missouri State, East Carolina, North Carolina A&T. See www.indstate.edu/ConsortPhD/. It's a short residency program, with the majority of the coursework by DL.

 

I haven't been accepted to any program because I haven't applied. If I do apply, I'll be looking for something with a strong DL component because I can't afford to take the 3-5 years necessary for a legitimate full residency PhD, but 100% DL is beyond the pale.

In my view, 100% DL doctoral degrees are mostly bogus - for the transformational reasons I gave earlier. But even within RA PhD/DBA DL programs, there are gradations of bogusness (bogosity ?). NCU is at or near the bottom. The five university consortium PhD in Technology Management mentioned elsewhere appears to escape bogusness altogether. Several very rigorous external degress from established universities may also avoid the deep stain of bogusness. Overall however, 100% DL PhD programs in General or Technology Management are going to be rare - bordering on non-existent, because it just can't be done legitimately.

What's interesting is that program quality in not discussed here on this forum very much. It's more about which school is cheaper or less competitive. You never (rarely ?) hear of the papers published in leading business/technical research journals from NA or low-rated RA schools, or advances in theory, or an NCU grad stepping into a VP position at General Electric. It's mostly a Vanity Doctorate.

 

I'm sorry I just had to jump into this topic. I think everyone has there own opinions and views on distance learning. For me, I have contemplated obtaining a DL doctorate and see nothing wrong with its validity in obtaining a promotion in your current job. I don't know how it would look in terms of college teaching but thats different topic. I think a DL doctorate is the only alternate for those of us who can't afford to take off years from work or spend tons of money. I have limited military tuition assistance, full time career in LE/corrections management, military reserve duties. I cannot afford the time and money in getting a doctorate the traditional way, although I would love to if the opportunity presented itself. It comes down to personal choice I guess. In the end, if a ph.d is in my future, it would have to be a DL one. Just becaue I can't access a traditional university does not mean I'm not entitled to a doctorate education like the traditional student.

 

I agree. This forum tends to put too much emphasis in the source of the degree, accreditation, school, etc. At the end of the day, most learners are already established and the degree is mainly for self improvement and a bit of a pay bump in one salary and the dream to teach at a graduate school.

I don't think that people cares where you got your degree as long as the job gets done.
If you have a PhD from NCU but you are a good teacher, I don't think students would take this against you as hardly students care about the source of your degree.

It was already established that a PhD from NCU is not going to get you a tenure track at Harvard but neither a PhD from Idaho State or Any other small time University.

Some people might be obsess about it but luckly this represents a very small part of the population, most people really don't care about the source of your degree as long is not fraudelent or bogus.

 

I don't think a 100% DL PhD/DBA is legitimate, so I don't have any recommendations for a totally online PhD/DBA in Business. I think the five-university consortium - www.indstate.edu/ConsortPhD - for a PhD in Technology Management is good. This has a short residency.

But see this thread: www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3202

 

Entitlement

I think this is a strange argument. There is no "entitlement". Life is unfair...

A couple of word changes might shed light: "Just because I can't access a regular School of Medicine does not mean I'm not entitled to an MD like the traditional student". Does this make sense ?

The vast majority of Schools of Business have determined that substantial residency is required to get a legitimate PhD/DBA in Business Aministration. That's the current standard. If you can't meet that standard, perhaps this doctorate is not for you...

 

At least one regional accreditor disagrees with you.

 

I wouldn't say legitimate but not so easy to achieve. USQ learned its lesson and changed the requirements for its DBA from 100% DL to some residencies for seminars and a yearly week visit to the supervisor. The main issue was not so much credibility but the lack of the ability of some to finish their dissertation by not having direct contact with their supervisors.

I really don't think that an employer that is bias against DL doctorates is going to change his mind if you attended oncampus for 2 months for your doctorate. However, the residencies would be highly beneficial for the student as he or she can progress faster and less problems might arise during the dissertation process.

Even for schools like NOVA, I have met few students that negotiated almost no residencies with their supervisors due to VISA requirements to the US and NOVA graduates are welcome for many tenure track faculty positions worldwide.

 

PhD-Lite

I thought we agreed Regional Accreditation does not imply program non-bogusness. Bridgeport University is regionally accredited but has an appalling doctorate in "naturopathy", and another in chiropractic - which no respectable univeristy would touch. Let's not get started on Regionally Accredited Maharishi U...

In the case of NCU's PhD, I don't mean "bogus" in the sense of a felonious ripoff. I mean bogus in the sense of coming nowhere close to a regular PhD in quality compared to a school with long residence requirements. It's not the same "PhD". An NCU PhD is really PhD-Lite for wannabe doctors.

New people asking about NCU and similar 99%/100% PhD/DBA degrees need to be warned - not encouraged.

 

Re: Re: Why NCU when there are Reputable Options ?

Wow!

I must now carefully weigh your opinion against at least one regional accreditor, but I don't know anything about you. Can you at least share your academic credentials?

• Here, I'll start:
  AA Los Angeles Valley College, 1984 (my first vanity degree)
  BS International College, 2001
  MS University of South Florida, 2003
  DBA Northcentral University, student

 

Re: PhD-Lite

Kalos,

What do you think about DL DBA's from Australian B&M universities like CSU, USQ and University of Newcastle?

 

PhD-Lite

I'd say they are a step up from the for-profit USA "universities" like NCU. Still, I think the same rules of transformational education apply there as in the USA. A true PhD normally requires 3-5 years (lately longer) full-time close interaction with a community of scholars. That's really hard to do with DL - and in my view impossible with 100% DL. People who get a PhD through a 100% DL merely "guided" in their studies long-distance by moonlighting mentors are just fooling themselves if they think their degree is equivalent. It's a substandard Vanity Degree.

 

Hello all, I am a long-time lurker, first-time poster. I am currently one of those NCU "bottom-feeders".

I find it interesting we are having a discussion about the quality of DL PhDs and defending our choices with someone who will not post his/her credentials and uses the word "bogosity".

 

I agree...Kalos likes to troll and try to show his/her "superiority" by putting others down, but yet when it comes time to show their cards, they don't.

 

Welcome aboard Truckie!

 

The bottom line is [from a previous post]...

If Kalos and others don't recognize the validly of a university, then so be it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. As long as the degree is properly accredited and it fits the need, then who cares what others think.

Truckie270, welcome to DI.

How do you like the HS specialization?

 

I guess I am a sub-bottom feeder. Oh well

 

I think that most NCU students realize their program is not a perfect mirror of a B&M Ivy League PhD. One has to wonder why some people are so intent upon reminding people of that which they already know perfectly well. To what end?

However, NCU and other DL students also realize that such RA graduate work can help in their career advancement. I have already told the tale of a professor at an RA school who received his PhD from NCU and another who received his from Walden. There are many more. I doubt it harmed them, probably helped them a great deal and helped secure--or land--their jobs. There are also many in the private sector who will benefit from adding a PhD to their credentials, even that creature beneath the "bottom feeding" NCU doctorate: the dread DETC PhD.

NCU students also realize that they are not typically situated to take advantage of a conventional B&M PhD program anyway because of work or family constraints.

They realize that they are typically saving a lot of money in opportunity costs and/or tuition by not opting for full time B&M graduate studies.

Many of them realize their education is not just for career advancement, but for personal intellectual benefit.

Most of them have no aspirations to teach at a major B&M research university; they know full well that their flagship state university is not likely to come calling and offer them a tenure track faculty position with a DL doctorate.

So they put all of the above in a hopper and make their choices. I'd say for most people here, they're probably choosing wisely, even if I may not agree with them on all matters. I guess that's why there are different schools and different modes of education offered--they all serve some market, some purpose.

To tell someone: "You'll never get a job in high-level academia with that NCU doctorate--ha!", is akin to telling a local golfer practicing for his country club's match play championship that he'll never win the U.S. Open. So what? He's not shooting for those stars, his efforts to improve his game and win the trophy have nothing to do with such aspirations. And just because he's not shooting for the very apex in a given field doesn't mean his efforts are worthless.

All of these things can be demonstrated pretty much beyond dispute. Yet some insist on calling our attention to this fact that has been hashed and re-hashed for years on this forum. To what end? Boggles the mind.

 

Never say never, many times it is not matter of credentials but opportunity. If someone has a PhD in home land security from NCU and a school is looking for a tenure track in the field and receives 2 resumes for the position, even with a NCU PhD you might still stand a good chance.

I know that at least in the case of accounting, The university that I work has a hard time getting PhDs in accounting so we hired a professor with a PhD from korea as no local candidates were available. If a local PhD with a degree from NCU would have applied for the job, I'm pretty sure that he or she would have gotten the job.

Timing sometimes is more important than having a degree from a top school.

 

Of course you're right, never say never. You can get a job in high-level academia without a doctorate at all. C.S. Lewis did no graduate work and was a full professor at Cambridge; Elie Weisel has no degree at all and is a full professor at Boston University. I was just making the point that precious few pursuing DL degrees are also angling for that coveted tenure track spot at a major research university.

Of course timing is important. My father-in-law teaches at a very good to prestigious private college. The business department had an opening for an accounting prof not long ago. The dean wanted someone with a PhD, but whenever they told candidates who possessed such credentials what the job paid (not bad, but far less than what one with similar attributes could command on the open professional market), they looked at the hiring committee like they had three heads each. There might have been an opportunity for one with a PhD from a place like NCU so long as they had the teaching and professional experience and probably an MBA from an AACSB school. So there are chances out there, even at very nice private schools. And you're right that they exist in accounting. I think the computer/techie end of academia is kind of hot also.