LSAT prep?

Know of anything else that's even cheaper? I'm talking UoL cheao, as in under $15K for a doctorate of some sort.

 

Nosbourne,

In terms of the difficulty of obtaining a law degree, I got a taste of that at UoL. The one year that I completed was HARD. How hard compared to a residential school? I don't know. Harder than my undergraduate degree (from a school with a local reputation for rigor)? You bet!

About halfway through the year at UoL I remember telling my brother that it was hard. As I said to him, I guess it's like REAL law school.

The plus about school here is that it will only cost me $3000 a year. Or, more probably, cost me nothing when I don't get in. As you point out the downside is lost earnings regardless of what school costs me.

And you're right, and I have to decide if I really want to be a lawyer. The thing is that I really want to live where I live, so that means that effectively I need a civil law degree, which basically leaves me with 2 schools.

If and when I don't get accepted it gives me a year to regroup anyway.

Okay, here's a question. The guy who spends $100,000 getting a JD, what sort of income can he expect?

 

Novemberdude,

I can't say what it's like in Canada. I know that the would-be lawyer enters a training contract a.k.a. articles and earns a small salary for about ten months, depending on the provincial law society's rules. After that? I couldn't say.

Here in the U.S., a VERY small percentage of new law graduates start with salaries easily described as stratospheric. Not astronomical; that comes with partnership in a Big Firm, but we're talking in the $60-$80K to start. These figures skew the stats, though. I'd guess that the average graduate of an average law school in a middle sized city can expect to start out in the early $40ks for government and a bit more in small to medium sized firms.

The result is, the new lawyer is crushed under the weight of his student loans. There are partial strategies for dealing with this but they ameliorate rather than cure.

 

I thought that you all would find this article on Law salaries and debt interesting.

As Salaries Rise, So Does the Debt

 

11 years ago I got an offer for $25K to start at a small three attorney criminal defense firm. Also probably could've taken a job as a paid judicial clerk for a state district court for $21K a year. Turned both down, went out on my own and took cases as they came and did contract/overflow work for a couple small firms. I had no idea that a lawyer with average grades from a good school would go so cheaply on the market.

Law's like acting: there are about 5% of the people making 75% of the money.

One saving grace for me: a combination of a full ride for my first year plus my wife being an adjunct member of the university's faculty--hence, family tuition waiver--for the next two kept my total outlay for law school at $1000 for the three years--a beautiful thing.

 

I wanted to say a belated thank you to Little Fauss and Nosbourne for all the advice and support.

Having given this a lot of thought over the last week or so I'm still not sure what the hell I want to do. Having said that I expect that I will not get in. There is a simple reason for this belief:

McGill works on a rolling admission scheme. My transcipt from UoL has still not been received by McGill, therefore they haven't passed my file to the admissions committee yet. They warn that if your stuff isn't in pretty damn soon they are likely to run out of spots. So it looks like no matter how good or bad my application may have been that they are probably just about out of first year places.

So now I have to figure out what, if anything, I want to do this fall!

Either go back to the DL LLB or start an MBA I guess.

 

Look, your only real prospect is to attend a brick-and-mortar ABA school. That preserves your career prospects and gives you an unquestionable imprimitaur on your degree,

That said, if you go the CA route, Concord presents the best option, IF, IF you really want a legal education, and not some sort of schleppy-degree-mill law degree.

Why I say that? Because all the other alternatives are really correspondence schools-- the type of schools the Cal Bar sought to discourage through the Baby Bar. Concord , at least, tries to replicate a real school's experience. Yes, it costs $$, but what of value doesn't???

 

I am beginning to wonder if that isn't true.

On another forum, a student of Taft posted that their program is essentially a reading list and exams. Concord, as I understand it, is offering something rather different; an online, interactive program.

Concord is beginning to graduate significant numbers of Bar applicants and their pass rate seems to be improving from "dismal" to "poor". "Poor" in this context is actually pretty remarkable.

Still, I have to agree that the ABA degree is the best option if it is at all "doable." My only real reservation would be that a middle aged, working Californian with no desire ever to go anywhere else might do well to consider a CalBar accredited evening program.

 

Non-ABA programs are pretty much considered a joke around the country, particularly with the bar associations.

The one exception--so far as I know--is California. It's considered perfectly reasonable there for a working professional to matriculate at a Cal Bar-only program. I don't think, so far as I can tell, that it's considered the scarlet letter of flakiness and incompetence there.

When doing corporate law work, I was once up against one who was at that time a Cal Bar-only attorney. He'd attended Western State (which I think subsequently became ABA). He was a successful businessman with an MBA from UC Berkeley, when he attended Western. He later started a successful practice. I also know a fellow who was made partner in a criminal defense firm and quite successful with a law degree from the same school.

It's hard to imagine anyone anywhere else with an MBA from an elite top-10 school even considering capping it off with an unaccredited JD. But California's different.

 

Yeah, take a look at San Francisco Law School's site www.sfls.edu and you'll see that they have some fairly distinguished alums. Former Governor Pat Brown, I think, some state Judges, a Lt. Gov., and a smattering of other elected officials.

Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn and SFLS has been around since the 1906 Earthquake. You'd expect to see some pretty impressive graduates in 100 years. Flakiness does not seem to be a problem.

Actually, SFLS must be one of the oldest law schools in California. I just wish that their first time Bar pass rate was better. Still, I imagine that most of their grads DO eventually pass and the total cost of the J.D. is around $35,000.