Send the ACLU a Christmas Card

Just out of curiosity: Have you ever thought of any particular reason why polygamy is or ought to be considered wrong?

 

Excellent question, I have a large problem with what is frequently associated with polygamy, at least polygamy in the Mormon Fundalmentalist groups. That is rampant dependence on welfare, men having sex with under age girls, and treatment of woman as second class citizens.

 

Re: Re: What a load of garbage...

Wow, that is so utterly absurd that it isn't even worth the effort to comment on it.

You really need to reevluate your morals. You feel it is ok to equate a group that advocates murder, etc. (the KKK) with one that asks for you to believe in god and if gay to keep quiet about it. You can have issues with that, it is your right, but to say they are the same is patently ridiculous. Frankly, the BSA's stance is about the same as the militaries. I bet you haven't returned any of your retirement pay in protest, have you? A little bit of hypocricy there don't you think?

You are as intolerent as those you rail against.

Give me a break.....

 

Bunch of things:

Yup, Carl, you betcha. I see your point. Really. Mine is in one word: Skokie.

BLD, remembering the invective you spewed against me (a 7 day creationist, prolife, Biblical inerrantist, heterosexual, ultraconservative Christian) for not agreeing with you absolutely 100% on some issue or other, I gotta wonder about the gays being loved by you. Considering how you deal with those who largely but not totally agree with you, would you mind explaining what love for those with whom you strongly disagree means?

If anybody thinks a Wisconsin Synod pastor is going to stick up for the scouts, think again, boychiks. But the verbal association of the scouts with the klan is inflammatory and grossly unfair.

Now, campy campers, can we get this thread back to the purblind ACLU and the moronic antiChristmas card campaign?

 

Pssst...! Hey Unk! He wants to be called "Gay lovin' BLD" from now on...... there's a double entendre in there somewhere. hehehe

 

Oh.

 

A new career opportunity for DI conservatives....

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-cp18gaycopdec18,0,983393.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines&track=mostemailedlink

Bruce? Ready to sign on?

 

Is there, however, any necessary cause and effect relationship between polygamy itself and the other ills you perceive in Mormon fundamentalist groups?

 

No, I don't remember.

Gay Lovin' BLD

 

Re: A new career opportunity for DI conservatives....

How does one prove his/her qualifications for the job?

 

Re: Re: A new career opportunity for DI conservatives....

I checked the Broward Police web site, and found the qualifications checklist....

1. Marksmanship - must hit 5 out of 6 moving targets at the pistol range.
2. Law - must score 90% or better on an exam regarding enforcement of law in the county
3. Gayness - must perform at least one homosexual act in the presence of an examining officer (private screening rooms will be provided at the applicant's request)

 

Re: Re: Re: A new career opportunity for DI conservatives....

...and a signed note from his former scout leader.

 

The most obvious is living off welfare. The woman typically spend their time being pregnant and raising kids. They can't work. If the husband works, he typically is only able to support himself. The women therefore are highly skilled at working the welfare system. For example, IIRC, 80% of the polygamist community in the northwest corner of Arizona is on welfare.

The denigration of women and sexual abuse of young girls, I believe have some cause and effect relationship.

The Mormon polygamist belief is that in order to go to the highest heaven they must have at least three wives. Now, as you may know the ratio between male and female is not three to one. So inorder to get their minimal number of wives required a couple of things seem to be fairly common. First, young men are frequently found to be "unworthy" and can find themselves ostracized as they reach adulthood. Second, they will marry daughters off at an early age in order to get a young daughter from a colleague. This also has the added side benefit to the community of trapping the females in the lifestyle at a very early age.

Disclaimer: I do not claim that all polygamist communities are the same nor do they all suffer from these same ills.

Speaking here from the perspective of a cultural anthropologists (which I'm not), I believe that polygamy can be a reasonably healthy lifestyle.

 

(a) If you have a problem with people depending on welfare, you could either (1) find a way to legally eliminate welfare or (2) teacfh people how to rely upon themselves so they can get off welfare.
(b) This happens under monogamy, too. Moderns are too balled up with the notion that because we are "modern" we are right, and somehow all previous generations got it all wrong. Most earlier societies would have had no problem with marrying the kids off at the age of twelve and would therefore have had no problem with the idea (or the reality) of teenagers having sex.
(c) Treatment of women as second-class citizens is hardly something that occurs solely in polygamy nor is it necessarily the result of polygamy. As you should, polygamy includes both polygyny (the taking of many wives) and polyandry (the taking of many husbands). Moreover, I think you will find that being treated as a second-class citizen usually comes from not having the economic power to get out of a bad relationship, which in turn explains why it is not a good idea to go into the marital relationship if you can't support yourself.

 

What you describe here is called poor family financial planning, which is all too common amongst monogamous indivifduals, too.

 

My feelings about bigamy and polygamy are the same as my feelings on homosexuality. I believe all are wrong and sinful.

However, in a free society, anyone should have the right to marry the person (persons) of his or her choice.

The qualifiers are obvious--legal age, no incest, no abuse, no misogyny, etc.

We live in a democracy, not a theocracy.

 

Personally, I would say that, in today's society, we already have a de facto form of polygamy, even if it does not have de jure recognition. I have a female acquaintance who has five children by four different fathers. I also have a male acquaintance (one of her baby's daddies) who has nine children by four different mothers. I say legalize both polygyny and polyandry and make people like this suffer through having to live with all of their children and all of their significant others!

 

Hi Ted,

The problem is that the bios don't suffer, we do--welfare and other government handouts.

 

Thing is, Jimmy, as long as welfare exists, we the taxpayers will suffer regardless of whether the polygamous arrangements are formalized in an actual and legal marriage or whether that "polygamy" consists merely in the "loose" attatchments of promiscuity.

 

True, but why add to the dole? One of the programs I supported while Bill Clinton was President, was his welfare reform. He got slammed by liberals but he did the right thing on this one.

I am not opposed to helping anyone in true need, not at all. I have doled out thousands of dollars (cash, food, gas, motel rooms, etc.) in 23+ years of ministry to people who came by the churches I served.

Many times I felt the need was not legitimate. But, I always took the position that I would rather err on the side of caution than refuse legitimate need, especially if babies and children were involved.