Harvard Extension School

Re: Re: Re: Harvard Crimson vs. Harvard Extension

To say the very least, none of the Harvard faculty I know is particularly receptive to the idea that their classes are somehow worth less because they're offered in Extension as opposed to another Harvard school. And I somehow doubt that my logic prof would be pleased to hear that people regard his classes at Extension less highly than they do his classes at Brandeis.

Generally the reaction I get to from students at other Harvard schools is something along the lines of "Oh yeah, how are the classes there?" The undergrads that some classmates and I met at our prof's office who were taking a similar class to ours were just glad to be able to discuss the material with us and get another perspective on it.

They asked about the program, we told them about it, and they nodded and said something about it being like attending one of the grad schools, you're at Harvard, but not in Harvard College.

I've certainly never met anyone as obnoxious about the Extension School as whoever wrote that bit in the Crimson.

From the Statutes of Harvard University, bolding mine:

So there are the Extension School's degrees, in the middle of the list of all the other degrees that the University awards.

 

Also of interest might be the Harvard residency guidelines, which offer an interesting discussion of residential versus nonresidential programs, and state that "No fully online degrees are being considered at this time."

 

If Harvard can call itself an extension college I can't see why Calamus can't call itself an extension college as well i.e. Calamus Extension College.

It shows that even prestigious institution like Harvard is taking to distance learning education for the funds that it seeks and the brand name that Asians so seek for the time being of course.

 

http://www.provost.harvard.edu/it_fund/distlearn223.html

Even though this was in 1999, Harvard is well aware of the changing times and they understand that they must perhaps adapt and make changes or potentially be left behind.

 

1999 was the peak of the dot-com boom. Some of the enthusiasm may have subsequently been dampened.

 

Outside of Harvard are there other IVY League school that are offering similiar coursework via distance learning, or are there any IVY League schools that offer degrees via distance learning?

 

This thread sends mixed messages. It condemns Harvard snobbery concerning the open-admissions extension programs, while simultanenously hoping to participate in that same elitism through enrolling in these classes.

I'm sure that Harvard extension offers fine classes and it's an excellent option for many students. But if a student's reason for enrolling in it is to enable them to drop a "when I was a student at Harvard" into conversations, then I'm a little less impressed.

 

I haven't seen the poor man's snobbery rear its ugly head on this thread. I'll read through a little closer, perhaps I missed something.

There's no doubt though, that people want to go to Harvard for the brand, but there's nothing wrong with that. That brand has impact because Harvard is known for providing a great education and having high standards, regardless of how the degree's obtained. I see no fundamental conflict between one wanting to attend the best school possible while simultaneously wanting their program--extension or otherwse--to have its fair due alongside other offerings of the university.

Now I agree that if one living in the Boston area just puts an extension class or two under their belts, then later refers endlessly to their "Harvard days", then such a person has made a buffoon of themselves. The classes are open admission and taking one means nothing; the extension Masters programs, however, are not open admission, and obtaining a degree from one of them is quite a feat.

 

Actually, the ALM IT program is practically open admission. The only two requirements to start taking classes in the program are 1) a regionally accredited or foreign equivalent bachelor's degree 2) can speak English. There's no undergrad GPA standard, no test scores, no letters of recommendation. Then once you do well in 3 classes, you're officially in the program.

Actually getting the degree is something else though... a student posting here said he saw people "dropping like flies". So although practically anyone can get in, if they're not prepared they'll fail out extremely quickly. It sounds like a totally different admissions model from regular Harvard, but it doesn't mean the quality is any lower.

 

Okay, so here is the question....

If given the opportunity, who here would not enroll in the Harvard Extension program (if of course you lived in the Boston area)? Just curious because I think most people would jump at the opportunity. Regardless of how we feel about those who consider themselves to be the elite, we have to admit that "Harvard" is at the top of most charts when it comes to quality education and reputation.

 

There are plenty of people living around here who enroll at other schools. I chose the ALM because it gave me an unparalleled opportunity to do serious research in my field. I have friends who've chosen continuing ed or part-time master's programs at BU, UMass, Cambridge College, Lesley University, etc., because those programs were better-suited to their goals.

I think it's a very bad idea to pursue a degree just because the university has a good name.

 

I fully agree with Alarmingidea that pursuing a degree just for the brand name of the institution is the reason of choice. I also pursue the idea that with liberalisation of services and with India and China into the picture, privately accredited institutions would be freer to provide a service to the masses that cannot afford the high fees that Ivy League institutions charge. The amount you pay can get you a house and car, plus there is no guarantee of a good paying job after graduation.

 

I do live in the Boston area, and I chose to not attend Harvard Extension, since they had no programs that suited my needs/interests.

 

I would jump at the opportunity to enroll at harvard extension if an online business program was offered. For example, an MBA
or business certificate program with no on campus attendance required. I believe that many would enroll in an online psychology masters program offered by harvard extension.

 

Re: Re: Re: Harvard Crimson vs. Harvard Extension

I totally agree with that. My time at Harvard Extension was anything but a walk in the park. To many people Harvard Extension is the factory outlet of Harvard, still the standard and worklaod are demanding enough to put off 70% of degree applicants. Getting a B in 3 courses aren't easy, you are competing with many industry experts in your field of study, many of these mature aged students were college valedictorians, just because they couldn't afford to continue their studies right after college didn't mean they are not good.

Harvard has updated its website to clarify whether an extension degree is a real Harvard degree. It is indeed. ALM Graduates can list the degree as Master of Liberal Arts, Harvard University.

 

I live in the San Francisco bay area where both UC Berkeley and Stanford have extension offerings. And unlike Harvard, Stanford actually has an extension masters degree in a subject of interest to me.

But I haven't enrolled in either of these prestige schools' extension divisions.

I'm more attracted by the 'open university' offerings at SFSU, SJSU amd CSUEB. These permit members of the public to take virtually all the classes from the regular university catalog on a space-available basis without formal admission to the university. I mean where else can you walk in off the street and learn to read Egyptian heiroglyphs?

Your question reminds me of a thread started several years ago by the sadly absent Mark Israel. Mark demanded that all of us who aren't enrolled in Harvard extension justify to the board why we aren't. I don't know what his motivation was, but I assume that he was exploring the role of a university's name in program choice.

My reply was essentially that expecting everyone on earth to flood into Harvard extension assumes either

A. Harvard extension's offerings are superior to every other higher education option, or

B. The Harvard name simply trumps every other consideration.

I don't think that either of these assumptions is true.

 

It certainly doesn't trump every other consideration, as there are brilliant, competent people without a college education at all. Many of them are successful entrepreneurs--who provide the tax base that runs our government and provide the jobs that keep us from starving--who I'd hire in a minute over many of the Ivy League Masters and PhD grads, as many of the latter aren't fit to polish the Mercedes hubcaps of the former.

But there's one thing that's hard to deny: Harvard trumps just about every other academic consideration.

 

When I started the Harvard Extension program I made my decision based on three primary considerations (in this order).
1) At that time (early 1980's) the Harvard Extension courses were actually less expensive than the local state college courses.(Thank you, Harvard endowment!)
2) I could get there on the subway. (The Green Line, the Orange Line and the Red Line were my life for many years.)
3) I guessed that an ALB from Harvard would be a better ticket into grad school than a BA from just about any other place on my "possible" list.
Jack

 

You sound like you are suggesting that Harvard extension classes and programs are academically superior to just about any other educational alternative. If so, then I think that it probably needs some argument.

Nobody here in the Bay Area would make that claim about Stanford or Berkeley's extension.

 

No, not about Harvard's Extension, just the Harvard name in general. It's the #1 university in the world. Now as to whether a Masters In Liberal Arts in Government from Harvard Extension carries more academic heft than, say, a Master of Arts in Government from the University of Michigan, I'd take the state school over the Big H Extension.

I don't think we have any fundamental disagreement here.