first time here

Neil, you and I both know that Century University is *NOT* held to the current school licensing standards in New Mexico. The fact that they are currently licensed there is because they were "grandfathered" in under the old oversight laws, which were a joke. Like it or not, everything I wrote about Century is true.

A free lesson Neil....when you take potshots like "But then the same crowd of self-serving self-appointed educational administrators are quite happy to be just as condemning and more so (as are many on this board) of perfectly legitimate American state-licensed and state-approved degrees because they don't much like the cut of those jibs either", then don't be shocked when someone calls you on it. When you criticize something or someone, you paint a big target on yourself to be criticized. The fact that you make it so easy is your problem, not mine.

As for the jobs of Administrators of the board, indeed one of them is to ensure accurate information. I supplied just that in regards to Century, so that anyone comtemplating that route will have the whole story, not just your version of it. The fact that you don't like it doesn't change anything.


Bruce

 

This wasn't dishonest. What is dishonest is when people promote non-accredited schools that engage is deceptive business practices and do not meet anyone's reasonable definition of an institution of higher education. New Mexico explicitly states that their licensure of unaccredited schools like Century does not constitute approval of them. I feel it is analogous to California's old section 94310(c) "Authorized" category. Century is allowed to operate, but it is not subject to the scrutinies faced by real universities.

Rich Douglas

 

Bruce,

Try this for size: 5.NMAC 100.2 May 2001

Clause 5.100.2.6 C(2):

Career schools and non-accredited colleges and universities must be licensed by the Commission and are subject to the standards and procedures for licensed institutions specified in 5.100.2 NMAC.

Is this clear enough ?

What you wrote before was not true, and neither is your statement below viz. "that Century University is *NOT* held to the current school licensing standards in New Mexico."

The above NM regulation is absolutely clear, or do you have some difficulty in understanding it ?

Neil

 

At some point would it not be prudent to note that "accredited" takes on many connations. Is it implied on the board that "accredited" either means RA or the foreign equivalent. USA-Today has many listings of institutions of higher learning that insist that they are accredited. In reality, they form the accrediting body that accredits the college or university.

I appreciate the information that this board contains, but the classic humor and sarcasim is without equal!!!!!!!!

 

Neil,

Stop dissembling. Please.

As you know, Bruce's point was there are exceptions for schools that were licensed prior to 1996.

So, try this for size: NMCHE 5 NMAC 100.2, May 2001

Clause 5.100.2.10 GENERAL STANDARDS FOR LICENSURE

A. New degree-granting institutions making application on or after September 30, 1996 will be required to obtain within three (3) years, accreditation with the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC) or another accrediting agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and the New Mexico Commission on Higher Education as an authority on the quality of institutions awarding such degrees. Institutions operating prior to September 30, 1996 shall be exempt from this requirement.

 

No, I have no trouble whatsoever understanding the regulation you posted. However, the flaw in your logic (which is big enough to drive a tank through) is that licensure by New Mexico has no academic meaning whatsoever. It is neither an endorsement by the state, nor any guarantee of academic quality. In short, it means nothing other then Century isn't breaking the law by operating.

As I've said all along, and as Gert has illustrated, Century is exempt from the current NM school licensing standards. What part of that do you not understand??

One more question Neil....why did Century leave California all of a sudden? I know the answer, but I want to see you try to explain that one away also.


Bruce

 

Once someone on this board discovers what they think is a fact regarding a school, everyone takes it and runs with it. It's humorous to read. One of the regulars mentioned that Century was "grandfathered" to the new NM law. Now everyone runs with it without question. I've even seen this on about.com and I just laugh. I can understand a biased toward schools that are not accedited, but let's get the facts correct.

Century University is held to ALL current (May 2001) NM standards EXCEPT that the school is not required to obtain accreditation from a DOE accediting agency. All the other standards *do* apply.

Your arguments against schools that are not DOE accredited are strong and sometimes I agree with them, but please read the law yourself and read it carefully.

Colleen Harron-Horiates

 

I have never weighed in on this ongoing Century debate. But this is certainly the primary recurring point. If what Colleen says is true, it would seem to contradict what others have routinely posted as fact here. That being that Century is not required to follow current NM licensing laws.

As I say, I have no stake in this debate. It is just an interesting point made within the ongoing debate.

 

I don't believe that Bruce said that Century is not required to follow the current licensing laws but that it's not required to follow current licensing standards. And the regulation that Neil cited above does defer oversight of academic standards to established accrediting agencies recognized by the Dept. of Education. And schools licensed prior to Sept 1996 are exempt from this oversight.

 

What standards? I'm serious -- I have been unable to find any information about NM's licensure process is actually implemented.

Chapter 21, Article 23 of the NM Statutes is the Post-Secondary Educational Institution Act. You can read this yourself at http://198.187.128.12/newmexico/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0

21-23-6 (Registration of colleges and universities; submission of materials) says: "A college or university registering with the commission pursuant to this section shall provide curriculum and enrollment information, financial information and all publication materials requested by the commission." However, there's no mention of how often this is done or whether this information and materials are evaluated by anyone. 21-23-6.2 (Licensure standards; requirements; fee authorization) mentions career schools repeatedly but does not mention colleges/universities. Similarly, 21-23-7 (Claims; limitations; appeals) mentions only career schools.

The one thing that NM does make clear is that licensure is not equivalent to accreditation. Section 21-23-14 (Prohibition) states explicitly: "The issuance of a license by the commission does not constitute accreditation by it for any purpose. Any representation to the contrary is a misrepresentation for the purposes of Section 21-23-10 NMSA 1978 and is prohibited. "

The NM Commission on Higher Education states "Licensure may permit an institution to operate, however, it is not an endorsement of an institution's academic program." -- http://www.nmche.org/schools/career.html

------------------
Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

The problem is, there are are no other standards. The only things I can find in NM school licensing standards is bureaucratic procedures, which are a far thing from standards.

I'll try it once again. New Mexico's current school licensing law requires that schools be on the accreditation track with a recognized accreditor. That standard does not apply to Century, since they were operating in the state before 1996. Yes, they were grandfathered in. New Mexico has no academic standards pre-1996 (the law which Century operates under), so what do we have in the end? Century operates exempt from current NM school licensing standards, and is not subject to any other academic standards. The End.


Bruce

 

That's exactly what I said. I've never said Century is operating illegally, because they're not.

Then again, cigarettes are legal also, and they are a great way to shorten your life. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is good for you.


Bruce




[Note: This message has been edited by Bruce]

 

I had title 5 sent to me. The entire Act is 20 pages long and I will be happy to email it to anyone that is interested - The New Mexico Commission on Higher Education 5 NMAC 100.2. I will post post part of it below. *I believe Title 5-2.27 c(6)* of the Private Postsecondary Licensure Operation Under the PostSecondary Educational Institutional Act is most significant.

TITLE 5: POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION
CHAPTER 100: PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION
PART 2: PRIVATE POST-SECONDARY INSTITUTIONS OPERATING UNDER THE POST-SECONDARY EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION ACT


5.100.2.27 ADDITIONAL STANDARDS FOR DEGREE-GRANTING INSTITUTIONS:
A. “The Commission shall promulgate and file, in accordance with the State Rules Act, rules and regulations that provide standards for the award of associate, baccalaureate, master’s and doctoral degrees....” [Section 2l-23-6.2.C NMSA 1978, as amended].
B. In addition to the general standards for licensure, institutions awarding degrees must meet the following standards.
C. Program Requirements:
(1) New degree-granting institutions making application on or after September 30, 1996 will be required to obtain within three (3) years, accreditation with the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC) or another accrediting agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and the New Mexico Commission on higher Education as an authority on the quality of institutions awarding such degrees. Institutions operating prior to September 30, 1996 shall be exempt from this requirement.
(2) Institutions proposing to add degree programs to their curriculum shall submit application to the Commission for degree approval prior to enrolling students.
(3) Associate Degree Programs. Associate degree programs must include both technical/vocational and general education instruction. No associate degree program shall consist of less than 60 semester credit hours of study or the equivalent.
(4) Associate of applied science degrees, associate of occupational studies degrees, or comparable appellations must be based upon the institution’s certification that the recipient is prepared for immediate employment in a specified career field and must be comprised primarily of technical/vocational study.
(5) Associate of arts or associate of science degrees must be based upon the institution’s certification that the recipient is prepared both for immediate employment in a specified career field and transfer to another institution for more advanced study. Associate of arts and associate of science degree programs will normally consist of approximately equal numbers of technical/vocational and general education courses.
(6) Baccalaureate and Graduate Degree Programs. Baccalaureate and graduate degree programs must be comparable in quality to those offered by institutions operating in New Mexico that are accredited by agencies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education as authorities regarding the quality of such degree programs. Award of degrees must be based upon the institution’s certification that the recipient has met standards of performance and competency comparable to the standards of institutions so accredited.
(7) At a minimum, issuance of a baccalaureate degree shall require at least 120 semester hours of academic credit or the equivalent. The degree program must include at least thirty-five (35) semester hours of general education core requirements.
(8) At a minimum, issuance of a master’s degree shall require at least 30 semester hours of academic credit or the equivalent beyond a baccalaureate degree.
(9) At a minimum, issuance of a doctoral degree shall require at least 90 semester credit hours of academic credit or the equivalent beyond a baccalaureate degree or at least 60 semester credit hours or the equivalent beyond the master’s degree and shall require successful completion and defense of a major independent project, involving original research or application of knowledge.
(10) The research/project shall include a review of the literature, bibliography, and citations and shall otherwise conform to a recognized writing style manual.

 

No need to email, since this is available online at the LexisNexis link provided by Kristin. Browse to:
-Administrative Code Renumbered
--NEW MEXICO ADMINISTRATIVE CODE (Renumbered)
---TITLE 5 POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION
----CHAPTER 100 PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION
-----PART 2 PRIVATE POST-SECONDARY INSTITUTIONS OPERATING UNDER THE POST-SECONDARY EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION ACT

 

Are you implying that these are academic standards?? Requiring at least 120 credits for a Bachelor's is an academic standard? Can you name one legitimate school in the United States that *doesn't* require that?

And, I'd like to know who is evaluating the quality of these credits. I see no mention of who is responsible for this. Academic standards? I hardly think so.

Since Neil hasn't stepped up to the plate, I'll ask you the same question I asked him. Why did Century leave California? And for good measure, here's another one. Why does Century claim accreditation from an unrecognized (and therefore worthless) association?

And Colleen, I think a bit of disclosure is order, don't you? You've stated before that you were a Century Ph.D. student. That was a few months ago, but considering you can "earn" a Century Ph.D. in 9 months, you may well be a graduate by now. Either way, you have a stake in trying to paint Century in the best possible light. I can sort of understand that, after all, I wouldn't be happy to see negative things written about my alma mater either. But, I wouldn't be so hard-headed as to ignore evidence presented to me.


Bruce

 

It needds to be pointed out that the New Mexico Commission on Higher Education makes a specific delineation between licensure and accreditation. Essentially they state that
licensure is only authority to operate but does not attest to quality. Accreditation is used to attest to quality. Related links from MNCHE are:
http://www.nmche.org/schools/career.html
http://www.nmche.org/schools/career.html#proto

John

 

Bruce,

Yes, I have earned my Ph.D. from Century in October. I have no problem disclosing this information. It took me two years.

Colleen Harron-Horiates

BA Trenton State College 1986
MS Trenton State College 1987
Ph.D Century University 2001