Acceptance of DETC degrees for State/government jobs

Yes I do. For purposes of anonymity on the boards, I won't say which one

And I did not mean to imply that there was a scandal at AMU, that is what I thought was being suggested by an earlier thread. Sorry about my verbiage. (Thank you Fed for the clarification.)

Just to let you know, some ESOs did try to prevent students from going to AMU because of the NA vs. RA debate. The main issue of concern was that the RA schools on base would not accept DETC credit, and not recognize AMU baccalaureate degrees for entrance into Masters programs.

As a result, AMU informed the ESOs that they had a legal right to be on military institutions and had a right to have their students granted TA because they were approved to do so by DOD. And I agree that they had that right. The implied a legal matter, and they stopped denying TA. So now, there should be no issue anywhere within DOD.

And I too am a supporter of AMU becoming RA. They were denied by SACS, so they moved from VA to WV, so they could apply for RA from NCACS. From what I understand it looks like they will be approved.

And I did not mean to spark up a controversy on AMU, all I was saying was that sometime ago (perhaps in late 2002 or early 2003) a GySgt claimed he was denied a job within the developing DHS because of his degree being DETC accredited. He may have been discriminated against, or perhaps DHS had changed their position on non RA degrees, and perhaps he got the job, or perhaps he had misrepresented the situation all together!

My point to my original post was that this was an example where I had seen a DETC degree recipient being denied a federal job. My point was that the GySgt should have talked to someone about the acceptance of the degree before starting the program as an insurance policy.

Please let me make it clear that I have no ill feelings toward AMU, APUS, or anyone with a NA degree. Also, I am sorry for misunderstanding the "scandal."

Happy New Year

 

I worked in a base education office for almost 3 years (Air Force). This kind of thinking is so prevalent, which really does a disservice to military members, who need alternative approaches to earning their degrees.

Here we have a process that has been defined for decades, yet routinely undermined by education services officials, most of whom have been educated traditionally. These people try to shove military people (their customers) into situations that don't fit, simply because they (the education officials) don't understand their very own product (nontraditional higher education).

DANTES publishes a catalog of DL schools (it has for decades, too), all of whom have recognized accreditation. An entire section contains DETC-accredited schools. Schools listed in the DANTES catalog are approved for tuition assistance (at least in the Air Force; I don't know about the other services, but it's probably similar). Open-and-shut case for DETC-accredited schools. Still, it is the base education office that approves tuition assistance, and they can make some strange decisions--even ones contrary to policy.

It's a no-brainer to tell your customers to enroll in local, traditional colleges. And that's the point, because these people have no brains when it comes to the very services they provide. (Not everyone, of course, but as a group....)

 

Bravo

Like Rich Douglas, I have seen many ESOs steer GIs towards sponsored programs (UMUC overseas, typically Park College stateside) just because they are there, even if the majors and learning styles don't fit.

But I see one point in avoiding DL, many inexpereinced students don't know what they are geting into with DL and often burn out and quit.

AMU/APUS does offer many options (especially in the liberal arts) that are not represented on most military bases. Now if they would only start there rumored Doctor of Military Studies program!

 

DETC Degree in Texas State Jobs?

Hi

Does anyone know first hand how DETC degrees are looked upon by HR people in Texas State agencies? I'm curious to know if they're considered equivalent to RA degrees or if they're thought of as having less weight than RA degrees.

Thanks!

Trish

 

Re: DETC Degree in Texas State Jobs?

Hi, Trish. Your best bet is probably to contact the HR department at the agency where you'd like to apply. I recently got a state job myself (at Texas State University). They didn't have a problem with the fact that I obtained my degrees through DL, but mine are RA so that doesn't imply anything about the acceptability of DETC degrees. I really feel that unless you have a compelling reason for going with a DETC school then you're best served just sticking with RA schools. There are enough low cost RA options that I just can't think of a good reason for choosing a DETC school, unless maybe the degree is just for personal enrichment and utility isn't a consideration.

 

Rich, what are you trying to imply with those 'um's? Not making an accusation; just asking why you used that could be construed as a <cough, cough> in a conversation.

I have found the AMU teaching staff very knowledgeable and certainly well qualified. By the way, APUS has been improving the grading criteria as they move forward in their effort to earn regional accredition. I definately would not consider any of the courses I have taken to be cakewalks as each has required a minimum of 10 hours per week, most courses seem to require over 15 hours per week to earn an 'A', between study and assignments.

I am also enrolled at Champlain College and begin my first course in January. I look forward to comparing APUS (NA) and CC (RA) from the perspective of course difficulty.

 

Rich, you have extensively discussed your research and its conclusions. But I'm not sure if you have ever advanced your own personal opinion on the matter of degree acceptance. (If you did I must have missed it.) You have said you support DETC but is your personal opinion that DETC degrees should or should not enjoy the utility and acceptance of RA degrees?

I personally believe DETC degrees should enjoy similar or equal acceptance as RA degrees for several reasons:

1. The DETC is an accreditor fully recognized by the CHEA and the U.S. DOE.

2. Neither the CHEA or the U.S. DOE issues any sort of rankings of its recognized accreditors. An accreditor is either recognized or they are not, and the principles of CHEA and the U.S. DOE are that all recognized accreditors are equal. No distinctions of any kind are made between regional and national accreditors.

3. The relative 'worth' of any education is the effort put in by any individual student. I would include 'effort' as doing well in a program (consistent 3.00 - 3.50 or better GPA), supplementing a program through outside research and reading of materials that aren't required for completion of courses, and participating in continuing education in the chosen field whether that education is formal (CEUs or addtional coursework) or informal through further research and reading. I don't think a student at an RA institution who does the minimum in order to just "get the piece of paper" should automatically enjoy greater acceptance of their degree over the DETC student who puts in great effort and does well in their program. But currently that is the reality.

This issue doesn't affect me personally, my education is all RA. But because of the reasons stated above I believe it's outrageous that DETC degrees are, in many cases, flatly rejected by some employers (public or private) and by many RA instituions toward further study. (Those professions requiring special additional accreditation for licensure excepted of course, but in those cases RA alone wouldn't be enough either.) This rejection is based solely on the source of accreditation, and disregards the facts of the principles under which CHEA and the U.S. DOE operate. In effect it's a caste system, without any factual basis.

While I recognize the current realities of utility of RA vs. NA and realize such distinctions are legal, for the reasons stated above I don't think they're ethical. What is your opinion? You may be tempted to simply offer conclusions based on research, with the additional conclusion that opinions hardly matter considering the known realities. But I'm curious as to your own opinion rather than conclusions based on research, and considering your extensive experience in this field I also believe your personal opinion does matter.

Kit

 

DETC vs. RA

Thanks, Rich for your input. I had been flirting with the idea of pursuing a DETC degree but I think I will stick to getting an RA degree.

Trish

 

Why, thank you! But I have expressed it many times before. Yes, I do. I truly believe graduates of DETC-accredited schools have done comparable work and should be equally recognized.

Some people have assumed I feel the opposite because I've spent so much time demonstrating the lower acceptability of degrees from DETC-accredited schools. But that's the difference between what is and what I want to be. Some people cannot separate those two; I do it all the time.

 

Re: DETC vs. RA

Remember, there are tens of thousands of people with degrees from DETC-accredited schools. My advice would be to stick with RA schools unless you find and need a particular DETC program and/or degree. Perhaps the field of study is unique, for example, or the process for earning the degree best fits your situation.

Desptie what a few strange types on another board say (and say, and say, and say....), I'm not "RA or no way." Hardly at all. But if you pursue a degree at a DETC-accredited school, it would be foolish not to be aware of--and take into account--the limitations that come with such a degree.

(The same goes for unaccredited schools.)

 

Rich wrote:

I would tend to agree, though I would believe and have seen that a degree from TRACS, DETC, etc. would have less stigma and limitations than an unaccredited degree. Would you agree?

 

Yes. I also believe, based upon research that I've done and that John Bear has done (in industry and academia, respectively), that degrees from nationally accredited schools are much closer to those from regionally accredited schools than they are to degrees from unaccredited schools. GAAP seems to be the key. Degrees from unaccredited schools are, generally, much closer to those from diploma mills in terms of acceptance.