Pug, Jimmy, Or? on Golden State School of Theology

I like question 39--it's the distance learning gospel.

 

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Pug

Thanks for being willing to look into that. I will be very interested in your findings when you're done.

When degrees are listed as qualifications it is good to be clear just how they qualify. Wouldn't you agree? Otherwise, why should they be listed?


As no one yet has commented on the course in John, I will make one point. I like some things about the outline, but the doc student seemingly does the same as the undergrad only the former does additional assignments too. This ,IMO, ought not to be!

The doc student should not be answering questions like ," What occupation did Peter have?"

 

Bill, how did your email talks with Dr. Graves go?

As far as the course goes, there are some good things about it but some of the other study GSST guides are better...they go deeper into the subject than does the guide for John.

Yes, we'll talk more about credentials.

Pug

 

Bill said,
"So, when I mentioned to Graves that I knew of one who graduated from GSST who is an avowed Unitarian, Graves was surprised! He said that that student must have misrepresented his commitment to the GSST formula in order to enroll."

Sounds to me like someone is up to the same tricks that he used at Bethany of Dothan.......Does not being a Christian demand a little more honesty that this?

 

What is this thread? Briercrest old home week?

Hi Alan, Bill, Pug: Indeed! Now, lest we go off-thread, let me focus on Dr Graves. I am glad that your correspondence with Graves has established his bona fides; my view of him has been changed as a result of the information in this thread--changed positively.

Would somebody please note that the same fact-finding diligence that a millist would scream about as a "personal attack", in this instance has enhanced the reputation of the leading figure at a substandard school.

For greatly substandard GSST is. I am not minimizing issues of rigor, credentials, etc., not for a moment. But "greatly substandard" *can* be improved with diligence and commitment.

Who knows? If Graves really does start shaping things up at GSST, that ethical integrity might well make them a preferable option to some better known schools which remain marred by substantial corruption.

I'm not able to contribute much new info on this thread, but I want to encourage you guys (Alan, Bill, Pug) in what you are doing.

Multumesc foarte mult, Janko

 

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I just don't know.

I find it inconsistent and confusing. But I don't know for sure all the facts.

I think the question ,which only someone who has the GSST catalogue can answer, is whether the catalogue actually says that students must adhere to the GSST belief statement. Unfortunately, the last two times I tried to download the catalogue, I could not as it is said to be "under revision."

Graves commented that even in a school like "my" Western he personally knew of people who misrepresented their positions and were able to graduate. Yet, believe me this only could happen if a student indeed misrepresented his/her Faith in doing coursework. One's beliefs would come out even if no creed need be signed!

I remember willingly expressing essential agreement with Western's basic dogma even in the very first Western course: The Greek Exegesis of The Pauline Soteriological Literature with Prof De Young. In discussions and in in papers the student's positions become very obvious in that course! "Well' , the prof might ask, " just where should the period be placed in Romans 9:5 ,and why, in order to determine the true Subject of the doxology?"

Frequently the topic of who or what Christ is thought to be , hardly a minor doctrine at a Christian school, [ is it (?)], was touched upon in practically all Western courses ! How could that not be the case??

The very Scriptures which were directly studied in Bible or Theology classes, or even indirectly used in every practical ministry class too as homiletics, Christian Education, or Pastoral Counseling , touch on that very topic on practically every page: Who is Christ??!! So, how could a student's views not surface?

That is an enigma that could genuinely bother me as facts unfold, if they do, about the GSST coursework and what it may or may not show about a student's beliefs!

I fondly recall at Western how the saintly, now retired, Prof Robt Cook, would gather us students around him in a half circle and quiz and probe our grasp of the relevant Christological themes in the history of dogma and our ability to interface each with connected Scripture. This was in one of the four required MDiv courses in Systematic Theology! Doc Cook would on a pad ,never shown to us, record comments about the quality of our responses!

So, if Graves knows of Western grads who did not subscribe to conservative Christology, I say that these took pains to hide that anomaly.

I am saying that not only our beliefs but the strength of the reasonings behind our beliefs was constantly a part of an ongoing but informal evaluation by Western profs in various courses. Why should this not be since as graduates we would in a sense represent Western?

This is why to me it is very peculiar that one could complete an advanced degree at GSST in ministry and yet that one's creed about Christ ,in student-- faculty/staff interaction , not come prominently into such discussions and assignments. How could that be?

It makes one wonder just how thoroughly the work is required to be done by the GSST student or how carefully it is evaluated by the GSST professor.

I wonder if possibly either deficiency by one or deception by the other may have to be acknowledged.

But I just don't know!

 

Since the point is to criticize Jimmy, apparently he has an email from Dr. Graves agreeing to the exception. And for the future - he also informed Trinity.
This was posted on another channel.

 

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Oh, you read minds now too and determine the motives of posters? You need to become the psychic moderator and remove posts which you divine to be unproper in motive, not just in word. Words no longer count!--what a bloomin witch hunt!

My motive is to critique GSST, not Jimmy. I don't care about Jimmy as much as you do. That is why I didn't name Jimmy. You bring him up, not I!!!

But if Jimmy has such an exception in writing , and I have in writing that exceptions are not made, then
well , here is yet another another "he said"- "he said" about GSST.

Read my post above. Dennis, I said, "I DON'T KNOW"!

I now say my motive is not to criticise Jimmy. If you think I'm a liar , then say it now. Or, would you just have me too guess at your motives?

 

To quote Jimmy at another channel- "Bethany only asks that students understand and respect their doctrine."

Does not being a Christian demand a degree of respect that is rare on this and similar threads?

 

Your motives???

I am motivated by seeing Jimmy and the schools he has attended get the crap kicked out of them viciously and repeatedly. And you Bill have helped lead the mob.

 

After reading Jimmy on another channel, I realize why I stopped getting anywhere near a discussion on this or any other forum that might even remotely involve him....I will disappear again, and will let others run the risk of being duped by his words (I am amazed at some of the gullibles on this forum!). I see why he gets a hearing on that other channel, like I have said before, online-college.info=NUTS (Not Unlike a Terrorist State). Jimmy claims that Bethany requires students to "understand and respect" their doctrinal statement. Was that the requirement some time ago when he completed studies with them? I am not sure. It seems to me they required a little more when I did a year of studies with them in the early 90s.

 

It is nuts, isn't it?

 

I have searched the DegreeInfo archives back to its beginning and simply cannot determine who this particular GSST graduate could be.....................

 

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Dennis:


Yes, Jimmy is paying me back at collegehints, isn't he. Apparently such criticism of people is quite acceptable at collegehints. Let him go on and on in viciousness unbridled and unanswered , kicking me there until he feels we're even.

I feel no need to have people run over there and call him on it when I am the one "abused."

And yes, also in his emails to me Graves expresses a distaste for degreeinfo because people here are critics of his school and he feels of his degrees. I acknowledged to him my posting here. He and I discussed his degrees, but I agreed not to detail that here. Paul seems to be a sincere person.


I know Jimmy and I have scrapped here. These practically always though have been theological disagreements. Why not, we both have theological degrees. If he says something doctrinal I respond.

But getting back to schools , and GSST, let's see if you and I can try sort out who is telling the truth: Graves or Clifton? I assume you think that truth telling is important, Dennis ? Right?

When I wrote to Graves I first asked if a student needed to agree with the GSST creed.

Graves said "yes."*** His yes was not qualified!

Then I named Jimmy and I asked , "... if that's true, how could a Unitarian graduate from GSST?"

Then Graves, having Jimmy's name in front of him , understand, said, "Well, we don't give polygraphs." He said some students do not truly say what they believe. Graves said nothing about giving Jimmy an exemption. He said Nothing about that! His silence, I assume, speaks volumes.

Dennis, I don't know whether Graves gave Jimmy such an exemption or not. But since Jimmy is aware of what here is said, would you ask Jimmy to post there or here that exemption from Graves he says that he has? If Jimmy claims it, he should have no concerns about posting it.

Then, if someone will tell me how, I will post what Graves wrote to me. Obviously somewhere either someone is not remembering things correctly or some deception is being made. Right?

Perhaps Jimmy is being absolutely truthful about the exemption. I just don't know. Neither do I care whether he is a Unitarian or not. That simply is not the issue.

This thread's is about GSST. It is FINE with me that GSST allows a Unitarian to graduate, if it does. I don't care!

What I do care about is that Graves, pres of GSST, says one thing and Jimmy says another. This seemingly also occured re DETC.

So, have Jimmy post that exemption he says he has. Let's see it. OK? Isn't that fair, Dennis?

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***I promised Dr. Graves I would not here say anything about certain matters, but this topic was not among those matters .

 

correction

online college, not collegehints