Last call for advice before I commit to an unaccredited university!

A few random thoughts on backstabbing, flakehood, and academia:

1. A few months ago, I ran across a skeptical site that criticized one alternative science researcher because his Ph.D.--awarded by a regionally accredited school--was nontraditional. Going with a GAAP school will not ensure that nobody will ever find anything wrong with your degree, though I would say it cuts the likelihood in half and pretty much ensures that there will at least be no legal reprecussions.

2. Even going with a residential degree won't ensure your permanent immunity from resume-bashing. I imagine if I were to earn a Ph.D. from Ole Miss, then suddenly get a teaching gig at Harvard, the Harvardites would laugh at my Ole Miss Ph.D.

3. Even if you get a degree from one of the five most prestigious schools in the world, you can still be laughed at if people think your field or dissertation topic isn't credible. Remember the person who earned a doctorate in sociology at the Sorbonne, who was ridiculed because his/her research focused on astrology?

4. The best solution, from where I'm standing, is to base your decision on the functional utility of the degree--and a doctorate from an accredited school will almost certainly have greater functional utility than a doctorate from an unaccredited school, even if it's in the wrong field. (I say "almost always" because there are exceptions--if you live in California and want to practice psychology, for example, a Psy.D. from the unaccredited California Coast University will be much more useful than a research doctorate. If you live in California and want to practice law, a J.D. from the unaccredited Oak Brook School of Law will be more useful than an LL.B. from the venerable, royally chartered University of London. And so on.) This isn't to say that "because I want to" isn't a perfectly valid reason to earn an unaccredited doctorate; just that choosing an accredited program vastly reduces the potential negative consequences.

5. If you do the best you can, choose the most rigorous option available to you, sign on, finish the degree, and people still call you a flake and laugh at you, read Emerson and shrug it off. I don't second Maven's recommendation as far as degree programs go, but I certainly second his other recommendation: Don't worry about what other people think. Conformity is for wusses.


Cheers,

 

To which unaccredited degrees are you referring? If you have some research about the schools and degrees that people laugh at, I would be interested in reading it. Have you published a book? Let me know and I'll buy it.

Cheers,

Dave

 

While I generally oppose laughing at people with legitimate unaccredited degrees (especially when the folks doing the laughing have reason to believe that the person being laughed at did doctoral-level work), Gus is a skilled writer who knows his stuff in the field of distance education, and I'm confident that he could very easily write a book if the stars lined up right. From an AED perspective, the only difference between Tom Head in August 2000 and Tom Head in September 2000 is that the latter was a published author, while the former was just some kid who earned a bachelor's from Regents. They were equally competent (or incompetent) as distance education experts.


Cheers,

 

Have you tried discovering who has published in your areas of interest pertaining to cyberspace?? There are beginning to be many publications out there. There is also an online journal dealing with cyberspace (the URL escapes me). One approach that has proven successful for some is to start a dialogue with any of these people if you can find them. What usually is helpful is if you can demonstrate familiarity with the literature as it exists. Then you got something to discuss with the intended mentor, and if s/he is impressed, may take you on as a research student. This method is usually much more successful than attempting to initially go through the registrar/admissions.

As for unaccredited degrees, having considerable experience myself, I would tend to stay far away from them if you are intending to be taken seriously without someone occasionally taking a cheap shot at your unnacreditted degree without having to be accountable for what they are putting forth. Imagine being called onto the witness stand as an expert witness on cybercrime, and the opposing attorney attacks your credibility on the basis of your unnaccredited degree. It has happened to people that I know personally.

In any case, good luck and best wishes!
Earon Kavanagh

 

I was simply poking fun at his ridiculous generalization... That's all.

Cheers,

Dave

 

Excellent point, Tom!

Being a proponent of RA/GAAP degrees I would recommend that one pursue this path tenaciously--if possible. However, since it is not always possible, there are scenarios where a substantive and legitimate non-RA/GAAP degree may warrant consideration. I refer here to degrees from legitimate schools which offer a substantive course of study, not a degree mill. A brief perusal of the Net will reveal numerous individuals who have earned RA/GAAP undergrad and master's degrees, then earned a non-RA/GAAP doctorate, and it has served them well. Several scenario's come to mind:

1. As has been stated, a CA resident who wishes to practice psychology or law.

2. Some in the business community who do not need the doctorate for employment, but earn a legitimate non-RA/GAAP Ph.D. for the competitive edge it may give.

3. Ministers, especially pastors, who have earned RA undergrad and master's degrees, then earn a credible non-RA/GAAP doctorate. They know they will serve the entirety of their ministry in the parish, so the non-RA/GAAP is not an issue.

4. I have seen several CV's on the Net of ministers who earned a RA undergrad, masters and D.Min., then earned a non-RA/GAAP Ph.D.

So, while the market for these particular scenario's is limited, it does exist. And Tom is correct, regardless of what, where, when, why or how one receives one's education---someone will always be there to respond with "mine is bigger, better, more prestigious, cost more, etc., etc., ad nauseum, etc."

If it works for you, is a legitimate program (no degree mills), then go for it.

 

If you do a quick search of any thread with “time bomb” in the title you will notice that the overall majority of the posts (after the indignation and initial shock at the hubris of the perpetrator have worn off) are rightfully laughing at, and having a little fun at the expense of, the individual who is finally receiving their just deserts.

Thank you for interest in my book. My latest publication is Non-invasive Physiological Diagnosis of Peripheral Vascular Disease, which although is self-published, has managed to sell over 1000 copies. Current price is $135.00 each. Please email me at [email protected] and give me your mailing address and payment information. VISA, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover are accepted.

 

Paul: I have read this thread and I certainly understand the issues that you raise. It seems that you feel a non-RA American school might have a greater flexibility, a better attitude toward innovation than many of the more traditional institutions, I have a generally high regard, more than most on this board, of CERTAIN non RA American schools. But even given that the "grass is always greener," I can't imagine living in England and turning away from chartered English universities which are very friendly toward dispersed residency study, in favor of ANY unaccredited American school....and, for that matter, very many accredited ones as well. Just my thoughts.

Craig

 

No quantitative research, just opinion, as I suspected...

Thanks,

Dave

 

Thanks, everyone, for a fascinating discussion. Some additional facts may help to stimulate the discussion.

In terms of my previous professional work, I don't think I have any real need for an accredited PhD because my existing qualifications were/are adequate for my needs.

Also, as a reasonably well-published writer (something like 20 full-length works and lots of shorter works), I like to think that my other credentials are okay for landing this kind of work, or at least good enough to get my material considered for publication.

My reasons for working towards a PhD are pretty complicated but I can probably condense them down to: (a) personal satisfaction, (b) a genuine interest in carrying out some original research that is important but that nobody else seems interested in, and (c) because I may want to switch from my current work (teaching/training/consultancy) to full-time writing in the future and think that the "Dr" title may help to sell more books - especially if I also switch the field(s) that I currently write about.

In the case of (a) and (b), I don't think that the accreditation issue is very important, providing the research is rigorous. There may, of course, be problems with other people accepting the research itself because of where the degree is registered but I think I could get around this. I know I'm being repetitive but my biggest concern is that of being labelled a fraud because of holding an unaccredited degree.

It's also worth noting that I live in the UK so I'm not sure what impact the RA-or-DETC-or-unaccredited debate would have on my particular case.

Finally, I may have been a little premature in my original request for advice. It seems that I now have interest from two relatively prestigious UK universities, both of which I could afford to study at. It's just a shame that one of them has taken six months to reply and the other only seems to be interested in having a fairly prolific writer on board

Once again, thanks for the replies/advice so far and I look forward to reading any new responses.

 

To paraphrase Alfonso Bedoya playing “El Bandido” in the film Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948), “Quantitative research? We ain't got no quantitative research. We don't need no quantitative research. I don't have to show you any stinking quantitative research!"

I don’t recall mentioning any research or citing any statistics (67.23% of which are made up on the spot anyway ), and cannot see how you could possibly infer that from my post. If you notice the icon at the top of my post you will get a hint (just in case the overall tone of the post did not give it away) that it was written with tongue firmly in cheek. This was done, not only to foment lively discussion (a purpose it appears to have accomplished), but also to illustrate a point, mainly, that with a little bit of research one should be able to find an accredited program that meets ones needs and will have infinitely more utility than an unaccredited one. (Not to mention that I’ve always wanted to be able to mention Clown College in a post )

That having been said, one of the things that always manage to bring a smile to my face, if not an outright chuckle, is the way those defending substandard degrees become totally devoid of humor once the subject of accreditation is broached.

And yes, like it or not, the antics of many an unaccredited degree holder have provided countless hours of amusement, and (dare I say it?), laughter. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it, at least until I change my mind.

 

I received 3 Associates degrees and 2 Bachelors degrees from RA colleges in the U.S. I recieved my MBA from an unaccredited, but state licensed, university in the U.S. (It does not offer DBA courses of study.) I applied to and am a member of 2 prestigious organizations in the U.S. for financial and business professionals.

The university where I received my MBA also offers business professionals to earn continuing education credits. A few states approve taking such classes at this university.

However, unlike you, I am not pursuing any other degrees. My point is that I researched many schools before I decided to apply at this one without any hesitation. Good luck!

 

rhema's quote is illustrative of a trend of posters. Such are folks who earned unaccredited degrees, talk about how good they are - and then are too embarrassed to even mention the school's name.

Consumers, think about it. It's easier, faster and cheaper to earn an unaccredited degree. The problem is that you then have to live with an unaccredited degree. Then you get to post messages trying to convince others to make the same mistake you did.

 

So is that a picture of Alfonso Bedoya or of Gus Sainz? I vote that it's Gus!

 

Opinions are fine, as long they aren't passed off as fact... So are there any particular schools that you laugh at, or is this general, non-specific humor? To which substandard schools/degrees are you referring? Seriously, if you know something specific about which unaccredited schools are not providing educational value for the money and why, you could help people. Just a thought for you to consider. Categorically denying the relevance of schools that don't meet the tests of regional-accreditation doesn't seem to be that helpful to the consumer. My opinion.

Thanks,

Dave

 

Dave the serious question that gets asked over and over but seldom gets an answer is "why did you choose your unaccredited degree program over a similiar accredited one?" I have yet to see an answer that is logical. Cost has clearly been ruled out as RA and GAAP programs are available as cheap or cheaper than unaccredited ones. Prestige certainly is not a valid reason. As Gus points out about the only one that does make sense is comic relief.

 

I agree with your analysis. These days with foreign GAAP degrees being fairly accessible & very inexpensive there is not much reason to pursue an unaccredited degree (unless you are talking Bob Jones University) even at the doctorate level. I realize this is just my opinion but I certainly think that GAAP foreign degrees carry more prestige that a US state approved school. You have people with UNISA degrees assuming various positions within the academic community and you don't have to worry that someone is going to come back and say that you have a state approved diploma mill degree. Many organizations use foreign credential evaluators to analyze foreign degrees. You can always demonstrate that your foreign degree is the equivalent of an accredited US degree. There is no evalaution service that I know of for state approved schools. So this can vary from Wyoming to California and all that may matter is that the school is not accredited. The media can do rough things with this fact.

I think what motivates many people to do unaccredited degrees is a fear (often unfounded) that they cannot do the work at an accredited school. In some cases you have people with unaccredited masters who want a docotrate but do not want to go back and get the accredited Masters to gain entry (no specific case meant). With a little work hunting for the GAAP equivalent, you have an accredited, cost effective degree.
Heck, I know a guy pursuing a South African doctorate that is interdisciplinary in Theology and IT. It can be done!

North

 

Yes, I think this is a picture of Gus! The DL facial expression says it all: Yea, Amigo, as a matter of fact my degree IS regionally accredited. Now whatya gonna do about it?

 

I should add that although the thought of replacing an unaccredited credential can be daunting you have the example of Dr. Morris. Russell has posted his story before and it was very interesting. He had an unaccredited Bachelors (most of the credit transferred in was accredited), after which he obtained a RA Masters and a RA doctorate (DMin). He was concerned about the unaccredited B.A. and after having completed his doctorate he went back and redid his B.A. through an RA school (one of the big 3 mentioned here??? ). He took steps to eliminate a potential embarrassment.

North

 

I suppose the motivations for choosing unaccredited schools are changing all the time, depending on the school and field of study. It does seem that the RA options for DL are radically different from just five years ago. I would guess there are hundreds of reasons for choosing an unaccredited school (no particular order):

1. Nice website
2. Friendly advisors
3. Interesting programs
4. Tuition seems affordable
5. Offers a specific field of study
6. Few academic regulations
7. Fear of failure
8. Just want to study w/o pressure
9. Need a diversion from current profession
10. Want continuing professional education
11. Religious issues
12. Don't want to defend a foreign degree
13. Ignorant of the options
14. What is available now was not available a few years ago
15. Employer doesn't understand accreditation
16. Employer doesn't care about accreditation
17. Student doesn't care about accreditation
18. No accredited programs in my field of study
19. Can't find the accredited programs in my field of study
20. Etc., Etc.

I'm sure everyone could think of a many more...

Dave