The United States is in the midst of a "Quiet Crisis."

Re: Involvement in the hard sciences

That is not what is being sought here. The President of RPI is concerned with the underrepresentation of females and ethnic minorities in engineering. If you make the changes you mentioned without overt descrimination as to whom may benefit, a possible result is that more women and ethnic minorties will pursue engineering as a career in addition to many, many more non-ethnic minority non-females*. The result would be an even smaller percentage of female and ethnic minority engineering students, despite the increase in absolute numbers.

The tone of the article led me to believe the goal is not higher numbers of female or ethnic monority engineers so much as a higher percentage. I'm completely behind the idea of more American engineers, be they any color or size or shape; but fooling with percentages of groups cannot be done without overt descrimination in some manner or form.

Mark


*Them what my grandpappy called 'while males.'

 

Re: Involvement in the hard sciences

Again, the problem is not getting more Oriental female engineers or more Jewish female engineers. The problem is getting more engineers. What our politically correct culture of victimization has forgotten is this certain really old-fashioned concept called personal responsibility. It is not the responsibility of the schools or society at large. The Good Book itself says to train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. While I forget which famous theologian said this, it has been said that if you give me a child for its first five (or was that seven?) years I can mold it for life. Note that the school system does not get the kid until age six. Hence, by the time the kid has entered school, mom (and maybe dad, too) has(ve) already molded that child's personality and character, whether for good or bad or indifferent, and about all the teacher can do is deal with what she (or he) has been given. Maybe you should worry about your own kids first, regardless of whether those children of yours are female or male or hermaphrodite or neuter and likewise regardless of whether those children are white, black, red, yellow, brown, or green with purple polka dots. Figure out what the various age appropriate activities would be for your children's intellectual stimulation. Read to them. Listen to them, especially when they tell you what they want to be when they grow up. At a certain age, when they tell you what they want to be when they grow up, start asking relevant questions like whether they know how much education such and such job requires, who will pay for said education and how, how much money such and such job pays, what standard of living such and such annual pay will buy, etc. Also, discuss the pros and cons of various possible college majors, while ultimately leaving it up to your child's free will to choose his or her own college major and then live with the consequences.

 

I think that article is just nonsense. Raise the salaries of engineers (physicists, chemists, ...) and you´ll find as many as you need and as soon as you want. It is that simple. In fact, looking at yearly salaries in engineering, numbers show unequivocally that there is not currently a greater demand compared to a few years ago. If an engineer were paid half the salary of an MD, people would literally kill themselves to secure admissions in engineering programs around the States.

 

Re: Involvement in the hard sciences

 

And, guess what? In a typical history classroom, students who spent their childhood years reading the chronicles of the kings of Israel and Judah and memorizing the kings and queens of Englanfd from the Middle Ages to the present day and studying the history of the American presidency evidence a level of comfort with the topic that can be intiomidating to those just now being exposed to the topic.

 

I disagree. In a typical Hostory 101 classroom, every student knows that they if they put in the work, do the readings, etc, they will generally succeed. Students have had history courses in high school, as well as many other courses that operate in basically the same manner as history courses. Yes, some students may come in knowing the material, or being louder with their viewpoints (which may shut a student up), but everyone knows what they have to do to succeed.

CIS or CS courses are different. If this is the student's first exposure to this sort of class, the type-A personality males will make them feel like they are behind. And once the intimidated strugge with a couple of programming assignments, they are often ready to throw in the towel.

What isn't clear to these students is that most of the rest of the class is struggling with new material as well. Even many of the loud-mouths, who are self-taught programmers do poorly in their first structured CS class.

One technique that has been successfully used in increasing CS course retention is to aggressively use pair programming on all in-class and out-of-class work. By doing this, students quickly understand that they aren't as far behind as they think and may actually be better in some areas. And those that really don't belong (there are some, of course) can see that more clearly than struggling on a programming assignment solo will ever allow.

 

Interesting response, but is it always the type-A males? I remember taking a CIS class during my undergrad years and there were some type-A abrassive women that intimidated a lot of students.

 

And in an environment where history expertise is financially lucrative and rewarding, those students have an advantage. But being CIS-literate (not expert) is increasingly a necessity for most financialy lucrative jobs - not to mention career fields - hence the concern in enabling as many people as possible to realize their potential in this field.

 

For the scope of this thread, yes it is. Review the adjectives and phrases used with each of the groups:

Women and Ethnic Minorities:

• underrepresented
• non-traditional
• quite bright
• intimidated

Males:

• dominant geek squad
• sterotypical
• type-A personality

Please, if you're going to contribute to the discussion, remain within the accepted paradigm.

 

Thats funny, Mark, but quite close to the truth about the current stereotypes on ethnicity, race and gender and the retribution that follows if one dares to question them.

 

Actually, those students (the ones with prior history expertise) would have the advantage in history courses regardless of whether history expertise was actually financially lucrative and rewarding; the only thing that changes is that if there were some time or place where history expertise either is, was, or ever will be financially lucrative and rewarding, then and only then will people actually give a rip one way or the other. Of course, the main point that I intended to convey was that you essentially allow the individual to self-select the field in which he/she chooses to become expert and allow their respective levels of financial compensation to follow therefrom.

 

Fine. I will admit that such women exist. They are rare (based on the miniscule participatication of women in IT), but they exist. That doesn't change the fact that teachers in IT need to find ways to identofy the qualified "intimidated" and encourage them and make them feel welcome in IT. The "geek squad" as one poster put it needs to be reigned in at least to the extent that other smart, non-geek squad students can learn. That's all I am suggesting.

 

Ok. I was only curious since IT was never my major. My only experience was at one of those introduction to programming classes that many of us chose to take as sophomores. There were women and men about in equal numbers (about 200 students), but this could be because it was a beginners class. I am not that familiar with the more advanced ones but I can imagine that the males would predominate in them.

I agree. I certainly would not want to take a class where I don't feel welcomed by other students.

 

YES! YOU FINALLY GOT IT--- "As many PEOPLE as possible to realize their potential in this field".

 

Merely the attempt by certain academicians to create revisionist names of caucasian males that are denigrating and condenscending. What a travesty and distortion of the truth!