Masters with the least amount of credits

You are probably talking about the 8 credit points Master of Education at USQ, an MBA or other master's degree is normally 12 points. The M.Ed at USQ is perhaps the cheapest and shortest master's possible from an accredited institution. Bear in mind that the M.Ed courses are also charged cheaper for some
reason. The 8 credit points could be completed in a little as one year and a half part time (6 credit per year).

 

Confusion reigns globally ...

I don't disagree for one minute with your 'pseudo-degree' statement. Many masters degrees in Australia:

1. Are not available to graduates from the same discipline.
2. Are essentially undergraduate courses repackaged with an upgraded assessment strategy [sometimes]

Therefore great care should be exercised in choosing degrees from here - probably goes for any selection from a foreign country.

One other point should be understood, and that is that Australian universities don't work on any standard point system. Some, like Deakin, have "1" [one] point per subject. UNE on the other hand have "6" [six] or "8" [eight] depending on the faculty



Good examples of the 'variations' one can expect out here, are the two masters I have as they can not be compared cross institutionally. Before I go on, I should remind you that we qualify for professional entry at undergraduate level, NOT at postgraduate level here - accounting, engineering, law, medicine, teaching.

MEd - UNE entry via 4 year BEd [our undergraduate degrees are normally 3 years]. Some universities don't even require education/teaching qualifications for entry.

MAcc - professional practice degree/practice for entry and then 72 units course. Their MCom is only a 48 unit course, and most MAcc degrees currently available [CSU for one] are repackaged undergraudate degree subjects, and these degrees are NOT available to accounting graduates.

The other point is the mix between 400 [4th year] and 500 [5th year] subjects offered. Some are all/almost all 400's whereas my MAcc for example, was 4 - 400's and 5 - 500's. Again, out here 4th year is NOT undergraduate, nor can it compared to a US 4th year subject.

So this highlights what I have always contended - what degree do you have, where is it from, and let me see your transcript!

The bottom line is, are we are simply collecting impressive wallpaper that won't necessarily convince everyone, or are we looking for a quality education. Some of us don't have to look for work, others wonder why they never get the job!

 

quality education

Tony: "If it is GAAP why should it matter? Are there different levels of learning that occur between 1st and 4th tier institutions? If you can get the credential, should that matter? In some cases it doesn't, such as licensure. However, if you care about the best educational standards, it probably should. That is the exact reason why some people look down on this forum, if it is GAAP, it is equivalent, without regard to the process of learning. While I realize accreditation supplies confidence that it is at least this rigorous, I also believe there is something more that needs to be said, depending on your objectives."

Telfax: "I've spent most of my life in academia. My concern/interest has been in the encouraging of people to 'think, criticise and analyze'. How dreadful that we have reduced everything down to course units, time put in and credit hours."


Well said.

 

Hille- Your original request was about Master's with the least credits required.
Cal State U at Dominguez Hills offers a:
M.A. in Behavioral Science in Negotiation and Conflict Management
for 33 Credits. 9 courses are required taking one evening course at a tiime for 2 years. They state their "cost per unit" is $180".
$180 X 33 = $5,940, Not bad for an accredited state university.
This program seems ideal for someone who is working and has minimial time available for coursework and doesn't mind going slow paced. Maybe we could hear from students in the program whether it is worthwhile program. Check out their site:
www.csudh.edu/dominguezonline/beh/behdesc.htm

 

UK Masters

UK Masters degrees require a minimum of 1,800 hours study time by the student. EBS Masters in Finance, Human Resource Management, Marketing and Strategic Focus - just going through Senate validation - require 9 examined subjects at 200 hours study each - distance learning and on-campus.

I confess not to understand the US credit system so I am not sure how this compares. The tendency for contributors to this site to find the 'cheapest', the 'least number of credits' and the 'shortest time to gradation' and so on, worries me. How about standards?

 

Cheapest? Why cheapest? Working at a comparatively poorly paid job in an economically depressed rural area has something to do with it. When the prosperous are vulgar about money it is often reckoned astuteness; when the poor are astute about money it is counted as vulgarity. The Carpathian peasant is bemused.

 

I think the nominal U.S. requirement is smaller. I believe that 3 semester-credits is expected to represent about 90 study hours (traditionally about 45 hours in lectures; 45 hours self-study). So a 30 semester-credit Master's is nominally about 900 study hours. Of course, many students put in more effort than the nominal amount.

Is this one degree? Abbreviated MFHRMMSF? Much more impressive than a straight MA!

I agree that this is disturbing. There's an apparent tendency towards thinking that a program (no matter how weak) is OK provided it's accredited.

 

Re: UK Masters

You forgot to add, "no proctored exams" and "no thesis". There is always the guy that claims, "I'm a very good student and I know my stuff but I score very low in exams" or "Research is not for me, but I need a graduate degree anyways".

There are now DBAs like the ones from empresarial (Costa Rica) that don't have dissertation and only a major project. What is the point?

If a graduate program has no thesis and no exams, How can we make sure that the graduate has the minimum standards?

I'm afraid that the whole thing of graduate degrees is becoming a business and institutions are lowering their standards to attract candidates in the already saturated market of graduate schools.

 

While I admire the mind that can hold two contradictory ideas at the same time, I'm having some difficulty understanding your position, Gert. You are currently enrolled in two such programs of the sort you purportedly eschew, one at UoL and another at USQ. Isn't there a disconnect between your actions and your words, between what you say and what you are doing? Further, isn't that behavior the very definition of hypocrisy?

Those allegedly disturbed by some process and activity, but who are themselves, card carrying members of the cohort who engage in the same, have little right to criticize, or to expect others to take them seriously.

More succinctly, HEL-LO!!



Lawrie Miller
author: BA in 4 Weeks and Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning*
http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/

* parts being released as they are completed
.

 

Re: UK Masters

Now, let's see . . .

HW MBA - courses 9
HW MBA - cost $7425 - (9x$825)
HW MBA - time 7 months - minimum time to complete

By every measure, the non regionally accredited Heriot Watt DL MBA meets Gavin's criteria.

Perhaps you could provide evidence of the correlation between the program characteristics listed above and outcomes, Gavin. Could you articulate the precise nature of your worry and the evidence you found that engendered your condition?

There are sayings somewhere that are germane to your position on this issue, involving stones, and glass houses, and what goes around coming back to bite you.




Lawrie Miller
author: BA in 4 Weeks and Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning*
http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/

* parts being released as they are completed
.

 

Execuse me!

Lawrie

You confuse me with the 'minimum time to complete' the HW NBA at '7 months!'.

Where did you get his number from? Are you dividing 1,800 hours into constant days of study?

I think it highly unlikey that anybody could complete the HW MBA in under 12 months full time and under two years part-time (the minimum time for DL students here is 3 years -though some - a handfull - remarkable ones have done it quicker). I consider the similar actual duration times in months to be common throught both Heriot-Watt University and other UK universities wtih which I am familiar.

The 1,800 hours of study rule is not set by EBS or our masters in the University Senate but by the UK academic standards people who set these things for approval for government grants )though at EBS we receive no such granyts, awards or subsidies but we still must comply with the UK standards to present our students for the award of a UK Masters degree.

On this occasion Lawrie consider another saying to do with who casts the first stone.

Lastly, I did not follow your calculation of the price but then I am not familiar with how GB pounds convert into dolars - or what the minus '9x825 represents'. But I am always humble enough to learn.

 

Clarification

Gert

The EBS Masters in Finance, Human Resource Management, Marketing and Strategy refers to the plural not the same degree! Sorry if I confused you.

EBS is putting the the University Senate - the governing body in a British university for all things academic, from courses, to student discipline, to academic appointments, to awards of degrees, and such like; the finances of a University are managed by the Uiversity Court - several new Masters degrees by distance learning (hence the list above) and these all must comply with the UK rule of 1,800 hours of study (or 9 courses times 200 hours each component).

UK Masters may be either all thesis or all examinations tested and the thesis kind also follow the rule of 'pass or fail' with no graded pass; examined degrees are graded passes (bare pass to distinctions - and of course 'fails').

Re Lawries comments: nobody could do these full time in under 12 months, part time in under two years and by distance learning (except with exceptional effort) in under three years.

 

Standards are more important

Uncle Janko

In a contest between standards and cheapness I believe that standards are more important. This has nothing to do with ignoring the financial plight of lower income persons with family responsibilities. If it had not been the availability of student grants from the taxpayer in the 1960s I would never have been able to go to University in the UK full-time in my early twenties on my then income levels. I have not forgotten that.

However, I went to a British university with comparable standards to every other British university. What worries me about the common themes here is that income levels force people to consider 'cheaper' programmes which are not of comparable standards. I note the names of universities that people are considering and I know their standards are minimal compared to others (in the UK we have grown from 43 universities to over 90 since the 1980s). Variations have appeared in assessment methods (one or two MBA programmes for example do not even have examinations, a matter of serious concern).

Hence, in a short message I expressed my doubts about 'cheapness'. In the post-cheap degree mode, life may show it to have become very expensive because its standards are low, recognised for what they are and measured accordingly by the 'market'. This is an unfortunate burden on the person concerned and his or her family who sacrificed the alternative spending out of the family's limited income.

I trust the Carpathian peasant is less bemused.

 

"By every measure, the non regionally accredited Heriot Watt DL MBA meets Gavin's criteria."

"Regionally Accredited" is an American thing. The HW DL MBA is accredited by a tougher regime than RA in the US. It is accredited by the UK government, signified by its Royal Charter, recognsied in the EU, the Commonwealth, the US and most other coutries with reputable university systems, including Russia and China.

"Perhaps you could provide evidence of the correlation between the program characteristics listed above and outcomes, Gavin. Could you articulate the precise nature of your worry and the evidence you found that engendered your condition?"

I have not yet read Lawrie's work on a 'BA in four weeks' so forgive me if I remain sceptical about its worth. Working 24/7 for 4 weeks gives 612 hours, in practice, very much less than this - even eight hours a day would be difficult to maintain. There must be a lot of 'credit' for previous 'experience'.

There is correlation between a programme's characteristics and the outcomes as measured by examinations. If you attempted an EBS MBA examination in any of the nine subjects required to graduate with preparation consisting of 'previous experience' and less than two months (25 hours a week) fairly intense dl study per subject this would show in your grades (we know because we have 10,000 examination papers graded twice a year and those who prepare less well than this across all nine papers fail, often badly).

People offering 'easy' routes to competence may be well intentioned, even saintly, but they do the people who 'buy' these schemes and invest their time and money in trying them no favours. At the other far end of the spectrum from Lawrie, some pretty awaful people crawl around purveying various scams of which there is much comment on this site. Hence, standards are important because they correlate well with examined competence.

 

Professor Kennedy, from those last 4 posts today ( lots of writing & great feedback) you made a statement about UK university Masters,

[sic] quote:UK Masters may be either all thesis or all examinations tested and the thesis kind also follow the rule of 'pass or fail' with no graded pass; examined degrees are graded passes (bare pass to distinctions - and of course 'fails').

Since Lawrie Millers site does not get into explaining the details of the Masters offerings, could you kindly provide your Business school experience a listing of Business/Marketing or Management Masters that are available in this way and from which univesities.

I would assume your not speaking about the MPhil route since this is available anywhere?

It would also be helpful for the other members and those on other thread postings to see if the Brit way of allowing entry to the over 30 age group professional without an undergrad degree is plausable.

Since H.W offers its MBA totally on coursework, graduating a HW degree does not require a Theses of any kind, so one would assume your not including Edinborough?

Your expertise is valuable with any response that you can provide.

Cheers.

J.R (ic)

 

Your response to Uncle Janko, quote:

P.K SAID, However, I went to a British university with comparable standards to every other British university. What worries me about the common themes here is that income levels force people to consider 'cheaper' programmes which are not of comparable standards. I note the names of universities that people are considering and I know their standards are minimal compared to others (in the UK we have grown from 43 universities to over 90 since the 1980s). Variations have appeared in assessment methods (one or two MBA programmes for example do not even have examinations, a matter of serious concern).


In such a small country, how was this achieved, where did you build all of those buildings, and faculty to boot?

Was it not the case of renaming places from Polytechs/Tech colleges to Universities, and taking those Honours degrees and making them MA/MSc for example into MA/MSc Business, Management, Marketing?

This was I believe how the Minister of Education in Maggies government did it, to show the EC Brits could be on par with the offerings on the continent..I believe this was part of the requirement to EC membership (just a guess on this topic)

J.R (ic)

 

Re: Execuse me!

.
My impression from reading his posts is that Gavin Kennedy is sharp as a tack, articulate, marshals the facts of an issue well, presents his position with unusual clarity, and (not an unimportant point), is usually right.

It does seem though, having realized that in this instance he was wrong, and that the HW DL MBA is indeed a near perfect fit using *his own* criteria of a probable junk degree, he has chosen to avoid the issue and obscure the obvious rather than risk being contradicted by his own words. Better to be thought feckless than a fool it seems.

Recap:

Professor Kennedy
"The tendency for contributors to this site to find the 'cheapest', the 'least number of credits' and the 'shortest time to gradation' and so on, worries me. How about standards?"

Lawrie Miller replies:
Now, let's see . . .

HW MBA - courses 9
HW MBA - cost $7425 - (9x$825)
HW MBA - time 7 months - minimum time to complete

By every measure, the non regionally accredited Heriot Watt DL MBA meets Gavin's criteria.


Gavin has dodged the issue, and transparently so. He has set criteria and "worries" about the tendency of contributors to favor accelerated, compressed degree programs. Yet it is clear his employer sells exactly that, and he personally promotes exactly that to students around the world. His own criteria condemn both his school and his program.

A degree that requires only 9 courses when the norm is 12
A degree that costs $825 per course and a total for the complete program of just $7425
A degree that by the rules can be completed in well under a year

Gavin has chosen to declare a set of criteria that if met, should cause worry and doubts about standards. He admonishes the tendency of some who post here to prefer those degrees.

Well, I post here, and I prefer those degrees. I also promote those degrees, and I do so without reward because I believe they best meet the needs of many a hard working woman and man, and it is with them that my interests lie.

The degrees are accredited and conferred by institutions that are generally well regarded and do not deserve the insult Gavin would arbitrarily bestow upon them.

Gavin is the paid employee of an institution whose program meets his definition of likely trash. Should we therefore "worry" and "have doubts" about it, or should we recognize that the HW MBA is an excellent program whether or not it is a good fit with Gavin's criteria.

Heriot Watt and its wares do not deserve to be stigmatized. Those who pursue a Heriot Watt degree do not deserve to have doubt cast upon their motivations or veracity simply because of that choice.

And if Heriot Watt, although fitting Gavin's criteria, is undeserving of scorn, how should we judge other institutions and their wares, meeting Gavin's criteria? Should we treat their students and adherents with suspicion and scorn, for it is Gavin's argument that we should. One rule for me and another for you.



Diversion mostly SNIPPED

Professor Kennedy:
I think it highly unlikely that anybody could complete the HW MBA in under 12 months full time and under two years part-time

Lawrie Miller replies:
All schools that you have marked as substandard by your criteria, could use that same excuse.
What you or I may may think has no relevance to the point. It is what is possible;/b] under the rules that has meaning here. Is it possible under the rules to complete all exams in two diets or is it not? It is, isn't it?


Professor Kennedy:
Lastly, I did not follow your calculation of the price but then I am not familiar with how GB pounds convert into dolars - or what the minus '9x825 represents'. But I am always humble enough to learn.

Lawrie Miller replies:
Certainly glad to help: there are 9 courses (9); each course costs $825 (825); total cost is 9 multiplied by 825 which equals $7425
The "minus" is in fact a dash, meaning "The HW MBA costs $7425 (the figure is derived from the product of the course price and the number of courses required for completion of the degree)".


Lawrie Miller
author: BA in 4 Weeks and Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance
Learning*
http://geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/

 

.
Lawrie Miller writes:
"By every measure, the non regionally accredited Heriot Watt DL MBA meets Gavin's criteria."

Gavin:
"Regionally Accredited" is an American thing. The HW DL MBA is accredited by a tougher regime than RA in the US.

Lawrie:
And yet for all that, Heriot Watt remains a non regionally accredited school.

Lawrie Miller asks:
"Perhaps you could provide evidence of the correlation between the program characteristics listed above and outcomes, Gavin. Could you articulate the precise nature of your worry and the evidence you found that engendered your condition?"

Gavin:
There is correlation between a programme's characteristics and the outcomes as measured by examinations.

Lawrie responds:
Well sure there is but which characteristics, and which outcomes, and what is the level of significance? Where are your data to back your position? Citation, Gavin. How do you know what you say you know?

How do you know that low cost programs are inferior in terms of outcomes? How do you know that accelerated programs are inferior in terms of outcomes? Where's the beef? Produce the proof.

Isn't it a fact that you have no credible evidence? That, like others, your comments have no basis other than your own beliefs, your own preferences and prejudices? You spilt a lot of consonants and vowels in these replies, Gavin, but rather tellingly, not one substantiating fact. Not a one.

I take no joy in seeing you impaled upon your own rhetoric, but you have alleged that some students, in motive and application, other than your students, are inferior. You have alleged that institutions other than your institution are inferior, ignoring the obvious fact that your program and your school fitted your criteria best of all. It is the most egregious act, that you have questioned the veracity of those who seek degrees from accredited institutions, and who earn accredited degrees from those institutions, because they fit some arbitrary set of criteria, from which you conveniently exempt your own program, your institution, and yourself.

I do not know that there could be anything more to say.


Lawrie Miller
author: BA in 4 Weeks and Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance
Learning*
http://geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/

 

Answers to the last question:

Yes to the first part; no to the second part. The first part involved more than just renaming, as it also involved a change in responsibilty for actually awarding the degrees from the Council for National Academic Awards (CNAA) to the separate "new" universities. Honours degrees have remained essentially the same. There has been some increase in provision for taught Master's degrees in the "new" universities, but these are assessed at a higher level than Honours degrees.

Malcolm S Jenner

 

It is possible to make a better comparison by looking at the standard full-time load for an undergraduate. In US this is, I think, 15 semester hours each semester. In UK it is 60 credits per semester. On that basis a UK Master's degree requiring 180 credits compares with a US Master's degree requiring 45 semester hours. In UK a full-time taught Master's degree usually requires three semesters, with the third one (usually an independent project/dissertation) taking place over the Summer when there is a normal start to an academic year in September.

(For information, one UK credit is supposed to represent 10 hours study time, including both class time and individual work time.)

Malcolm S Jenner