DL PhDs that hold full-time faculty positions

Hi Jack,

I appreciate your humor! The asterisks were not intentional. I'm just one of the few computer challenged creatures residing in New York. Yes, NSU is a B&M school. I just wanted to point out that DL Universities and DL programs are gaining much more respect and acceptance here in NYC, especially in the public school system.


Regards,
Maria

 

DL Ph.D

I would like to earn my Ph.D in the future.

How do you feel DL Ph.D graduates will compare to B&M graduates in ten-years?

[Note: I want to teach full-time at a university where I can do research in Biblical Archaeology(or any archaeology) and archaeoastronomy].

Thank you,

cb3

 

Re: DL Ph.D

DL PhD candidates from the for-profits and the NSUs of the world will not be taken seriously until more of them start publishing in their discipline's better peer-reviewed journals. But that's inevitable, it will happen, and I think a 10 year time frame is a pretty fair guess as to when the tipping point in at least marginal acceptance will come.

That said, remember that there are some VERY good institutions already offering DL doctorates: Stanford, Purdue, Nebraska, Aston (UK), Manchester (UK). I'd hazard a guess that a DL doctorate from one of these institutions would be reasonably-well accepted in academia right now.

 

I found a number of professors with PhDs from DL universities like Walden, Capella, even a dean of academics from Cal Coast Univ, at RA universities.

Here's a full professor with a DBA from CCU at a Northwest RA university: http://www.pc.ctc.edu/about/details.asp?id=84

The utility of these degrees in academia is increasing as more established and well-recognized education providers offer these degrees in order to be competitive in the market. I think it's becoming clear that it would not be good in the long run for these providers to diminish their own product.

 

Re: Re: DL PhDs that hold full-time faculty positions

While I am in full agreement with the posts here that predict the increased presence and acceptance of DL degrees in the future of academia, I do have to clarify the information of this post.

The CCU example above is not a good one to establish Kirkland's point. The Walden and Capella examples are much better. Penninsula College, the institution linked to above is NOT a university, but is a community (two-year) college awarding the associates degree. Faculty at this level are required to possess a masters degree. There is no evidence that the CCU doctorate contributed to this person's position, since his masters degree and considerable field experience would be enough to establish a community college professor.

Having served as a community college faculty for a number of years and having served on the hiring boards for faulty and administrators at the college and university level, I have seen faculty hired with non-accredited doctorates. In every case, they were hired in spite of (not because of) their unaccredited degree, which was not recognized by the college for salary purposes. Those who possessed unaccredited doctoral degrees were paid at the masters level.

Tony Pina
Administrator, Northeastern Illinois University

 

Re: Re: Re: DL PhDs that hold full-time faculty positions

Thanks Tony for your pointing out your experience but I believe you are stating conjecture concerning the above listed professor.

Here's another respected professor, at Lewis and Clark State College, who holds a DL doctorate. Perhaps this is a better example:

"Gerald Ramey [email protected]
Professor
College(s) attended and degrees received (with years):
Bachelor of Business Administration - North Texas State University, 1974

Masters of Business Administration - University of Texas - Pan America, 1980

PhD in Management - California Coast University, 1989

Classes Taught:

Management, Leadership, Organizational Behavior, Strategy and Policy, Power, Business in Literature

Gerry Ramey has been teaching management at LCSC since the Fall of 1980 and is considered one of our best by the campus community. He has been heavily involved in distance education for years, mostly as a traveling teacher, and has taught more classes at more outreach sites than any other faculty member on campus.

Gerry's primary interest and strength is in the organizational behavior and leadership domain, however limited department resources has also given him the opportunity to teach in the strategy and structure areas of management. In style and method in the class room, Gerry relies heavily on discussion, and the simulated activities of an organization.

Special recognitions/certifications:

Oxford Round Table 2004

Fulbright Senior Specialist 2003-2008

Fulbright Senior Scholar 2002-2003

Fulbright Senior Scholar 2001-2002

LCSC Educational Foundation, Excellence in Teaching, Outstanding Faculty Award, 1994-95

LCSC Institute for Community Development, Community Service Award, 1992

School of Professional Studies, Excellence in Teaching, Outstanding Faculty Award, 1988-89

Outstanding Teacher, 1981-82, 1980-81"

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: DL PhDs that hold full-time faculty positions

Conjecture? Well, perhaps...however it is certainly not conjecture that your first example, a community college faculty, held a position that does not require a doctor's degree. So to establish that a non-accredited CCU doctorate is useful in higher education (beyond the personal satisifaction of being called "doctor") based on that example would be conjecture.

Unfortunately, your next example is no more useful in establishing the point. Professor Ramey is probably a fabulous teacher and his accomplishments in the field are certainly impressive. However, if you look at the other seven full-time faculty in his department (including the Chair), you will discover that only one possesses a research doctorate, one has a JD and the other five possess masters degrees as their highest degree. Therefore it is not conjecture to observe that a doctorate is not required for appointment as a full-time faculty at Lewis and Clark College Division of Business. In Professor Ramey's bio information that you quoted above, it states that he was hired by Lewis & Clark nine years before he received his CCU doctorate.

Examples of faculty with Walden and Capella (and even a couple of Touro UI) doctorates have established that DL doctorate holders exist among college and university faculty. What has not been clearly established is whether they achieved their positions because of their DL doctorates, or whether they were earned after they had already become full-time tenure-track faculty (as was the case with Professor Ramey).

So far, I have yet to see any example of a person who possesed an unaccredited doctorate (CCU or otherwise) hired in a tenure-track position that REQUIRED a doctorate. I will happily eat my words if you can provide examples to the contrary.

I am an advocate of degrees via DL and want to see more faculty who possess them, but we need much better examples than these to establish their utility.

Best wishes,

Tony

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DL PhDs that hold full-time faculty positions

Tony:

As you're an insider in academia, and I'm an outsider--just an adjunct--you'll likely have more insight into the utility of B&M DL research doctorates than I.

What do you think of my guess that DL research doctorates from established schools like Purdue, Manchester, Aston, Mississippi State, Indiana State, et. al would likely have just a step below traditional doctorate utility in academia?

Were one to receive a DL PhD or DBA from, say, Aston or Manchester--both among the top 75 or so biz schools in the world--would they have a lot of explaining to do if their dissertation was otherwise up to B&M standards (I suppose it would have to be or a B&M university like Aston/Manchester wouldn't let it get past committee) and they had university and college teaching experience?

This question is not hypothetical, as you may have guessed. I've been teaching PT for 2 years as an adjunct at both a small uni and a CC, teaching biz courses, tired of fighting the lawyer fight, want to do the tenure track thing, preferably a smaller, regional research uni. Been weighing and balancing the utility of: A). Taking 4 yrs off to do research doctorate in Mktng at Big U versus B). Continuing to work while doing one of those PT distance programs like Manchester and Aston offer (both are AACSB, so technically would meet standards for virtually any business faculty position). Option B better for the finances, option A better for family's sanity, as I might have a bit more free time.

I'm sitting here pondering which route to go. Maybe if you know something-or-other about how valuable (or not) those fully accredited but non-U.S. DL doctorates are, it might tip me one way or the other. My wife is willing to go either way, bless her heart.

 

Tony: I believe the original request in this thread was to present any distance PhDs that exist as professors in faculty. I presented several who hold that title as examples that full time faculty do exist even with State Approved doctorates. It should be easy to extrapolate this logic to satisfy the question at hand. This is not a discussion concerning unaccredited vs state approved vs NA vs RA. The issues regarding individual pay scales and the motivations under which they were hired are irrelevant to the original question. Perhaps you could provide some examples of distance degreed professors that hold degrees from Walden, Capella, or some other distance programs.

 

Tony:

What do you think about my dilemma? Any insight?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DL PhDs that hold full-time faculty positions

Originally posted by little fauss


Tony:

As you're an insider in academia, and I'm an outsider--just an adjunct--you'll likely have more insight into the utility of B&M DL research doctorates than I.

I'll try my best to help.

What do you think of my guess that DL research doctorates from established schools like Purdue, Manchester, Aston, Mississippi State, Indiana State, et. al would likely have just a step below traditional doctorate utility in academia?

That depends...any doctorate from a well-regarded research university would be a feather in one's cap. Most universities that award a degree via brick & mortar and distance learning do not distinguish on diplomas or transcripts those degrees earned one way or the other. So, if you earn a degree from, say, University of Nebraska, you may or may not have a DL degree.

This brings up something that, in my opinion, is highly relevant. Is a PhD program where 20% of the courses are online a DL doctorate? How about 50%? 75%?

If someone applies for a faculty position with a Walden or Capella doctorate, I will know that it was earned via DL. If someone comes with a Purdue doctorate, I would not assume that it was done via DL (even if it was). So those who get a DL degree from a brick & mortar campus do have an advantage in situations where DL degrees would face prejudice.

Were one to receive a DL PhD or DBA from, say, Aston or Manchester--both among the top 75 or so biz schools in the world--would they have a lot of explaining to do if their dissertation was otherwise up to B&M standards (I suppose it would have to be or a B&M university like Aston/Manchester wouldn't let it get past committee) and they had university and college teaching experience?

Probably not, if they had good teaching, conference presentation, and research publication experience. A full vitae does an awful lot of explaining for you. I have never been on a hiring committee that read the dissertation of any faculty candidate (although we often ask questions about the dissertation).

This question is not hypothetical, as you may have guessed. I've been teaching PT for 2 years as an adjunct at both a small uni and a CC, teaching biz courses, tired of fighting the lawyer fight, want to do the tenure track thing, preferably a smaller, regional research uni. Been weighing and balancing the utility of: A). Taking 4 yrs off to do research doctorate in Mktng at Big U versus B). Continuing to work while doing one of those PT distance programs like Manchester and Aston offer (both are AACSB, so technically would meet standards for virtually any business faculty position). Option B better for the finances, option A better for family's sanity, as I might have a bit more free time.

I'm sitting here pondering which route to go. Maybe if you know something-or-other about how valuable (or not) those fully accredited but non-U.S. DL doctorates are, it might tip me one way or the other. My wife is willing to go either way, bless her heart.

Having a supportive wife is the most valuable thing, by far. I never would have made it without my wonderful wife and children. Your plan has great potential for success if, in addition to your doctoral studies, you will become an active member in the relevant professional associations in your discipline. Volunteer on association committees, attend the annual conferences and present papers at those conferences. In this way, you will become known to the very people who will likely hire you. Also, you should conduct and publish research in your discipline's journals and professional magazines. That will build up your standing in the profession. Also authoring some grant proposals will also be a feather in your cap, as will volunteer/consulting work for community, government and professional groups.

A doctorate from a reputable non-U.S. school should really be no problem.

Tony

 

Tony:

You are an absolute gentleman. Would that there were more like you in academia, more of us who are forced to go the DL route would stand a chance.

Thanks!

 

Thank you for your kind words. I recently had the pleasure of recommending a colleague with a Capella PhD for a teaching position. If I had an open position, I would have hired her BECAUSE of her Capella doctorate. Of course, I work in the field of distance learning, so I am a bit prejudiced the other way

Tony

 

This is great news for those who have a passion for teaching at the university level with a DL doctorate.

This gives me renewed hope that there can be a great future for not only myself but others who want to be professors in the academic fields they love and enjoy.

 

Great Thread!!!

This has been a truly informative thread that really gets to the core of the DL issue for many. (the nonsense about Mercedes, Hyundai and Honda nonwithstanding)

Tony Pina can't be thanked enough for his contributions to this forum. He is among a handful of Senior Members whose expertise, insights and advice sets DegreeInfo.com heads and shoulders above anything else on the Web relating to DL. Thanks Tony!

 

Re: Great Thread!!!

Thank you so much for the compliment. However, there are many who post on this forum who deserve (at least) equal praise. I have benefitted greatly by their contributions. I am glad when I can help out.

Tony

 

Tony,

I'd like to second the thanks to you for insight. While I mingle with many professors the ones who grasp the concept of distance learning (or rather the student's being able to learn) seem to be in the minority.

Thanks again,

Kevin

 

Mercedes much better than a Hyundai? Sure.....


Mercedes recalls 1.3m cars for quality issues

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/89be949e-a202-11d9-8483-00000e2511c8.html

At least you will look cool as you wait by the side of the road for the tow truck!

Reminds me of a great marketing class I had on how easy it is to sucker Americans into spending a lot of money on cars. Add a "L" to a Toyota and viola, you have a Lexus!

I had my Hyundai for seven years before trading it in on a little el cheapo pickup truck. No problems at all. The money I saved on transportation costs paid for my BS in Business. I will pay for my MBA in cash partly because I have no car payments and the insurance is low.

I know these are no "please look at me and think I am cool" cars\trucks but they work for me!



Just my opinion

 

I apologise for sending this thread even more off topic, but it appears that owners of Hyundais will also be waiting on the side of the road (or upside down in this case)

(another recall and another one. They might catch fire too)

A Mercedes may not perfect, but Hyundai hardly has a flawless history.