Comparing TUI Ph.D. to AACSB Ph.D.

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Out of more than 1000 Colleges and Universities in Europe and Asia, only 20 are members. What does that tell you? I have to add that these universities (except LBS) are not among the most prestigeous in the countries that they are located.

Ike

 

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There are many thousands of schools in the US and about 300 are AACSB. The ratio is low everywhere, that is the point.

I would consider (from this board) Henley pretty prestigeous.

I do not know a great deal about Europe, but this board seems pretty knowledgeable.... would the board (others that have commented about European schools.... like Prof. Kennedy) say the schools listed are not prestigeous???

Ike - What criteria do you use?

 

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Kristie:

There is the United States of America (the only super power) and there are hundreds of other countries in world. AACSB is an American organization. It is not a world organization. There are similar organizations in other parts of the world. There is no evidence that indicates that Universities in other parts of the world are craving for AACSB accreditation. Many companies and business school graduates in Europe and Asia are not even aware that AACSB exists!

Ike

 

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I undestand your point, and we just simply disagree. You asked for data as in number of schools in Europe and I provided it.

You said that the number of schols did not matter, but the quality of schools. I again gave you data of some of the schools that I would consider high end schools... then asked you for a clarification, but that was not answered.

I try to base my decisions on data, and that is what I gave you.

I also do not know everything, so asked for the board (and you) to explain criteria, which is not responded to, only your opinion again.

I think AACSB was an American only accreditation, but it is even in the process of changing the name, since there are schools in Europe, Asia, etc. etc. that would like the accreditation.

The trend IS there, and I have provided the data to substantiate my thoughts. If you have any DATA to say otherwise, I would like to see it, since when times change, trends change and I may have been mislead. BUT if you only restate your opinion again and again, showing no foundation for it, I will have to stay with my original opinion, based on the data.

Also, all I am saying is there seems to be a trend, and some European schools are finding value in it. When you take that and respond that all schools in Europe are not craving it, I do think you are right, and I never said all schools are craving it.

I would like to ask a direct question based on your comment: You stated that LBS is a prestigeous school in Europe. If AACSB does not matter, does not hold and value, is not of concern for European schools (all claims you have made) - Why did they seek and get accreditation??? An answer to this question may clear the logic up that I am missing.

 

As a European, I can confirm what Cristine (spelling?) says. Those are well known universities, at least, in continental Europe. There is no question about it. What Kristi fails to see is that there are many other business schools with better name, prestige, fame, that don't show up in that list.

One important detail. In Europe universities are funded by the state (the UK is another story). That means that all universities have similar standards, and those American ranks don't make any sense in Europe. Kristi, I guarantee you that I have never ever seen a single advertisement for a position in Europe where they required an AACBS accredited MBA.

I hope this clarifies it.

PS. I think I read that the accreditation costs € 3000-4000 . Since it is so cheap, why not get it so they can lure some Americans into it? That's the only explanation that occurs to me.

Regards

 

Oops, one more thing that you as Americans may find hillarious. Some of the schools Kristine mentioned are not even universities, and their MBA degrees are legally worthless even though many employers may find them very attractive.

 

To JLV: Ditto but with some reservations

To Kristie: You may disagree with JLV but his viewpoints on this thread are not non sequitur.

Ike

 

Please elaborate.... I was not aware of this!!!! Legally to whom? What schools?

I do understand this, but I was making the point only that there are some schools that are in Europe and do have AACSB accreditation. I do not think all schools are AACSB accredited in Europe, but there seems to be a trend, that all I am saying.

I agere, but I have seen it visa versa. I have seen American schools require AACSB and also want international experience. So being a school in Europe and AACSB is a benefit.

The accreditation process is much more than paying a fee, it is almost a 3-4 year process.

I do want to put in one opinion that I have not yet. Though I think that AACSB is important to some, I do not think it guarantees a good business school. I clarified this early on, since I do not agree with the standard set by some schools with this requirements, but it is real from my experience.

 

I like hearing both of your opinions. Though I may disagree with some, I usually learn something in the process.

I hope you have a few minutes to reply to my questions though.

 

Kristie

This the official list of degree granting institutions in Spain (by the Education Ministry):

Public Universities

and

Private Universities

Now, those are the only universities where one can get a real degree in the country. Have you found in that list Instituto de Empresa or ESADE, for instance?

NO. Legally their degrees are useless since it is actually the Spanish goverment the organ that accredits (in the American sense) a University. The goverment (as in most, if not all, EUropean countries) has the monopoly on education matters. It is something similar to the Royal Charter in the UK. However, I also can guarantee you that MBA's from those institutions I mentioned above have very good name in the country.

Please Kristie, notice that I have never questioned the accreditation AACSB or any other. I am merely sharing my experience and my humble opinion from Europe on some of the issues you guys are discussing on a lazy Sunday afternoon (evening for us). Some of the best American Business Schools carry that accreditation so I am sure it serves well as an indication to measure which schools are "safe" and those that excel. However, in the European Union this just doesn't make any sense. As an example check the web page of the University of Rotterdam (Rotterdam Schools of Management) whcih has an excellent name in the country. This is what they say about their accreditation.

RSM Accreditation

My impression is that they want to be accredited by every possible agency to attract different segments of potential students. Do AMericans like AACSB? Let's get it. Do British like AMBA? Let's get it. And so on. Marketing may possibly be the key. I think the trend is that we'll see an increasing number of Asian uiniversities trying to get an AACSB accreditation for obvious reasons. But in Europe the quality of a program is not detemined or verified or notarized by AACSB, for instance. Governments do that.

Regards

BTW, Kristie, I have been reading for months about your PhD program selection, and I never had the opportunity to wish you good luck. Buena suerte!

 

I really don't know the answer to your question. I also believe that you do not know the answer. LBS's reasons for joining AACSB are known only by senior officials and administrators at LBS.

Ike

 

I believe it is becuase they (being a European University) does find some value in the AACSB accreditation.

I am just trying to follow the logic in your argument.

If A, then B - it should always hold true.

If no European schools find AACSB accredition valuable, then no schools would hold the accreditation.

Since that is not the case, I can't see how anyone could make that argument.

Then the argument changed to:

If no PRESTIGOUS European schools find AACSB accredition valuable, then no schools would hold the accreditation.

Again, does not hold true.

I have my opinion, and have backed it up. Speaking from a logic (argument) perspective, I have a valid premise, and substantiated it.

Anyway, I think that we have both made our points. I just thought maybe you had some data to back up what you have stated.

JLV - Thanks for the information and sites. That is very interesting. I wonder if the folks at AACSB know about this. Also, thanks for the congrats, but it is still in the process, hoping to close soon on a decision.

 

I have been too busy lately to join this debate. Now that I am back, I generally agree with Dr. Okonkwo's take on the issue of AACSB especially the part that it does not lead to any professional licensure. I have no objection to AACSB or any other alphabet soup program accreditation but to say it carries so much weight as to question those without it is to say the least nonsense. I say it again that I have seen too many people making “too much” income without it. This year alone, two recent graduates that I know were hired by a big five accounting firm without AACSB accreditation. While there may be employers out there not reimbursing unless a program is AACSB is accredited, it is not the norm.

Until someone tells me what a graduate of accounting with a CPA from a non AACSB school does not have that a graduate of accounting with a CPA from AASCB has I remain unconvinced as to the value of AACSB and the likes of it. I don't care what the academic world thinks of it. The academic world does not run the business or employment world. Perhaps the employment world has since seen that there is no value to it that they have practically ignored it. I don’t want to hear that they are gradually accepting it because, what I see daily among the people around me does not support that assertion.

A friend of mine runs a multimillion-dollar accounting practice and the two schools he graduated from were non-AACSB. Any school that refuses to hire him for a teaching position if he so desires in the future is the loser not him. Another close friend also, a graduate of non AACSB school with CPA is also practicing solo after working in one of the most well known energy company in DC. If AACSB or the likes of it were leading to credential, it would be meaningful. For a profession like an accounting that a degree is not even required for an entry position in the federal government, talks of AACSB accreditation is over inflated.

I am in the health care industry. The only accreditation that matters are those that leads to credentials in addition to an accredited degree. All these AASCB talk is really amusing to me. I still believe it is meaningless. That some colleges require it for teaching while others do not does not make it important.

I am unable to go into some practical examples when people have gone into teaching practically recruited by schools regardless of this non-important accreditation for sake of privacy. As for the reason why schools seek it, there are many reasons why schools do what they do. It is like asking why schools establish online education. They do it to meet the need of individuals. There are those that like online, there are those that still hold some biased views of it although their lives are daily impacted by decisions made through distance means unbeknown to most of them.

I do not believe that AACSB or the likes of it offers more to students that non-AACSB schools cannot other than perhaps some limited teaching opportunities, which can easily be overcome by strong work history and experience. I rest my case in this thread because I may not be convinced until someone answers my question above. The most important credential in accounting is CPA, CPA and CPA not AACSB. In finance, there are finance credentials (I am unable to say what they are since this is not my area), in health care, there are health care credentials in addition to an MBA; not program accreditation. I will take questions on this off public forum to those who may still disagree with me. Best wishes for the holiday.

Godwin

 

I agree with all of your statements, because you did make the statement that is only matters to a few teaching positions, and a few employers, not the rule.

I agree, I just happen to work at the job that requires AACSB, and am trying to get in at CSUS, which requires it as well.

This is not the first time I am the exception to the rule

My only caution is: If 2 schools - all other things being equal, with one being AACSB, why would someone not choose the AACSB.

I happen to think it holds merit with some, and also think that it does not say that these schools are the good business schools.

I see the trend going the other way, and not particularly happy with it, if the trends are just strange here in California, great, I will welcome it with open arms.

Also, there ARE schools in Europe going through the process. It has to be dfor a reason. It might be a perceived value, not an actual one, but there is a value.

When a school goes into online forums and classes, it is usually because they think their target market has that as a need / want.

 

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I never knew that Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates were in Europe.

 

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I guess we learn something new every day!!

 

Godwin - I agree with you, but I think you are making the second argument above, if AACSB means you will have a better education, which I agree with you. But there are some schools that the rule is AACSB, which you have already agreed to as well. I think we are saying the same thing. I do agree there are some exceptions, like someone in the indsytry and has 35 years of experience from an RA school. But as a general rule, it isn't the norm.

manjuap - thanks for contibuting, but it is just a list, not specific, if you have an opinion, please contribute something value added (same for you Syrus).

 

Re: Non for profit?

Touro University International is a not-for-profit academic institution.

Check the Middle States site:

http://www.msache.org/

click <Members and Candidates>
click <advance search>
search <Touro>

Hope this helps.
Eli