CCU to offer professional doctoral degrees the first quarter of 2007.

Clarification please?

Sorry, Dave, are you saying these schools all had pre-DETC doctoral programs?

How long ago was the DETC no-doctorate "turnover"?

From what I read of CCU's existing programs, I still am extremely skeptical of being able to truly educate people to the doctoral level.

 

Truth in advertising

That is my point, actually. LCPC (Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor) is not a doctoral level practitioner. So if such a person earned an unlicensable PsyD and called him/herself "Doctor" that would be deliberately confusing because the degree under which s/he licensed -- and is thereby legally authorized to work -- was not a doctoral degree.

However, to anyone other than the educational literati, hearing "Doctor" will infer a belief that a particular level of training and license to practice was obtained.

Let's not forget that "Dr. Laura" rose to fame capitalizing on the public's belief that she held doctoral level training in some counseling field -- actually her doctorate is in physiology and she also is a Master's level marriage and family counselor.

[Oh, by the way, it is generally considered poor form to use both "Doctor" and one's degree/professional license in one title. As "Doctor" is an honorific it is meant to stand alone. It is presumptuous for the holder of a doctoral degree to present him/herself as "Dr. John Smith, PsyD."
It should be either "Dr. John Smith" or "John Smith, PsyD."]

Why, yes ... hello!

 

Re: Oh really?

 

'fess up

As you seem to be insinuating you are somehow an expert in the licensing of psychologists, please share with us the basis of your expertise.

I know my profession ... what is yours?

 

laferney: Mental health Counseling is a different profession than Counseling Psychology.

SIMON: Mental Health Counseling and Counseling psychology are not "different professions" but are on the same continuum with similar academic curriculums with emphasis on assessment and counseling/psychotherapy treatment interventions. In fact, the masters degree in mental health, rehabilitation and career counseling can be used to apply for admission into a counseling psychology doctoral degree program due to the similarity of their focus.

laferney: I agree the knowledge learned in a Psy.D program would be useful to these professions but confusing to the client. Psychologists do psychological testing. Licensed Social Workers don't.

SIMON: Yes it can be confusing IF the clinician does not provide an informed consent which they are obligated to do by law and professional codes of ethics! However this is not only a potential problem for counselors but for all mental health clinicians who need to clearly delineate their scope of expertise and the specific nature of their academic degrees, certifications and experiential backgrounds to enable a client to make an informed consent to engage in the counseling process.

Although Psychologists conduct "psychological testing" so do Mental Health Counselors and more recently a number of Social Work master degree programs have been adding testing to their curriculums in order to augment the employment opportunities of their graduates.

laferney: Counselors can do testing but do not treat the more severe pathology that a psychologist would -so as a rule most counselors do not do projective tests as the Rorschach. If he has a Psy.D as a title this can confuse others.

SIMON: However, the fact that a Psychologist is often more skilled in some aspects of psychological assessment is actually irrelevant in the treatment of the severely mentally ill! For instance your example of projective thematic testing has long been contested relating to its reliability and validity in accurately assessing apsychopathology. As mentioned earlier and in another post the bottomline in preventing the "confusion" you mention is whether the clinician of any mental health discipline clearly delineates his/her credentials in comprehensible manner in order to prevent any confusion of doubts in their clients.

laferney: So there may not be anything ethically wrong with it but it may confuse the client and other mental health professionals.
One can be a psychologist in a non-clinical area of psychology with a Ph.D or ED.D but a Psy.D is usually reserved for Licensed psychologists.

SIMON: However,this does not preclude the judicious and ethical use of a Psy.D by a masters level clinician as long as the practitioner complies with the requisite state board of licensures rules and regulations. In short if in compliance there is absolutely no impropriety or illegally in doing so.

laferney: If one is a Licensed Social worker I suggest they obtain a D.S.W. If a licensed mental health counelor I'd suggest a ED.D
or Ph.D in Counseling.

SIMON: However, there are Social Workers who pursue doctoral education in clinical areas of Psychology and many Counselors who perceive the advantages of obtaining a Ph.D in Counseling Psychology versus one in Counseling.

 

Re: 'fess up

Very simple solution. Why don't you provide substantive proof that supports your all or nothing assertions and I will present mine. We will compare notes and the one who is incorrect will leave this forum! We are waiting for your response Don!

 

Re: Clarification please?

Yes, all those schools have offered doctorates for many years, with the exception of CCU, which dropped new doctoral enrollments to go for DETC, and Newport, which dropped new doctoral enrollments for reasons unbeknownst to me.

I would imagine that CCU and Ryokan College would be obvious ones to offer the DETC doctorate in psychology. I seem to recall that CCU offered the Ph.D. in Psychology, not the Psy.D.; does anyone recall? Ryokan offers the Psy.D. Perhaps SCUPS would try for DETC with their Psy.D., but the owner of SCUPS also owns NoCentral, which doesn't offer the Psy.D.

Dave

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Zing

me again is one of several logins used by the NoCentral shill who also behaves like a troll from time to time, attacking people who disagree with him/her.

Dave

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Zing

For what it's worth, me again has posted on this and other forums for many years. You won't find anyone with a higher level of integrity.

That said, I have only two things to add:

(1) DETC is a joke.
(2) CCU is a joke.

If y'all have a problem with that, tough. My Ph.D. is RA.* Yours (if you have one) isn't. So there.
__________________

* And so is PsychPhD's. So give it up, Simon - you're hardly in his league.

 

Re: Re: Re: CCU to offer professional doctoral degrees the first quarter of 2007.

Aren't there two standards - non-APA schools and APA schools? Do non-APA schools just further diluting the reputation of a PsyD program?

 

I would disagree with Simon on a few points. Counseling is a distinct profession from Psychology. There are different licensure routes for both and different professional organizations representing them. (ACA. AMHCA vs. APA. APS and their divisions) A person with a Masters degree in Counseling Psychology cannot call himself a licensed Psychologist in any state. A person with a Masters degree in Counseling and supervision can get a license as a Mental Heatlh Counselor.
Why would a person in Social work or Counseling get a Psy.D when doctoral programs are avalible in their own fields? How would a Psy.D help them more than a D.S.W?

If one is making a career change from Counselor or Social worker to a Psychologist that's great. But it's a career change .

Of course we are ethically bound to disclose our training but if you are a LICSW with a Psy.D what do you disclose? " I have a Doctoral degree in Psychology but I'm not licensed as one and cannot offer services as a Psychologist. I'm a licensed social worker. Although there are some similaries in some roles when I do Psychotherapy I'm offering it and billing at the social worker rate"

Counselors are not trained at the same level and depth as Psychologists for initial licensure.

I'd disagree "that psychological assessment is actually irrelevant in the treatment of the severely mentally ill!" I find psychological testing reports very heplful in treating patients esp. neuropsychological testing reports.
While it is true that psychological testing including the Rorschach's popularity has decreased somewhat in recent decades it is still widely used. There have, however, been studies that support the validity of the Rorschach test. (Exner scoring)

"In short if in compliance there is absolutely no impropriety or illegally in doing so." Legally and ethically are 2 different things.
By ethically I don't see in your post any intent to purposely mislead a client or patient. But I do feel you might seen as a
Psychologist by a client or other providers if you sign your reports
Simon Psy.D without throwing in LMHC or LICSW, Psy.D.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Zing

Wrong.

Dave

 

Re: Re: Clarification please?

If I recall correctly, Coastal California University used to offer both the PhD in Psychology and the PsyD in its pre-accreditation days and the proprietor of Northcentral University had to sell Southern California University for Professional Studies as a condition of Northcentral's accreditation.

 

Re: Re: Re: Clarification please?

Thanks, Ted. Actually, it's California Coast University. Also, I've wondered about the SCUPS to NoCentral connection, as SCUPS credits were transferable to NoCentral at one time; I'm wondering if complete ownership was transferred.

Dave

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Clarification please?

Darn! It's late ... and the 10-minute edit period is up.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Zing

Steve you are right! The fact that you have obtained a Name it and Frame It Ph.D that enables you to drive a truck for a living proves beyond a doubt that I am hardly in your league.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Clarification please?

Dave,

I have heard that Dr. Hecht's sons own SCUPS.

 

Take your own bait

Nice try ... but the one who has no evidence (you) is always the one to challenge the one with the evidence (me) to the "all or nothing" duel.

As we all know, what comes next, yet again, the one with no evidence (you) will come up with another misdirection red herring while pretending that the "substantive proof" already presented (by me) doesn't exist.

So instead of wasting everyone's time by suggesting bogus challenges and utilizing your (practically) trademarked name-calling ... just answer the question:

What is your area of expertise?
How have you come to believe you know anything about psychology licensure?

Could it be that your pathetic "name it and frame it" slur reveals your true identity as a wannabe scholar who couldn't make the grade so you try to belittle those who could?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Zing

Could you expound further as to why DETC and CCU are jokes?