Calvin School

Care to name at least five?

Thanks!

 

Dr Philip: Why are you so condescending? With almost every post you make a snide comment about our supposed parochialism. Then you ask for our help. Either your request is insincere or our help is not worth much. Which, in your view, is it?

 

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I'd settle for just one!

Let anyone name a US Evangelical (as is Calvin) unaccredited seminary (as is Calvin) which, (as does Calvin) offers docs and whose doctoral program in Bible or in Systematic Theology is thought to be ,by the Evangelical academe ,"one of the greatest.".

Just name that one and be prepared to provide credible reasons for that choice.

 

Dear Uncle Janko

I am sorry if I gave the impression that I am trying to attack some on this forum. On the contrary, my only aim was to point out that there are plenty of exceptions, if you look around. I mean the matter of accreditation as requirement for the genuineness or quality of a degree.

Coming to Bill's question, the masters and doctoral degrees of following institutions are not accredited by any government accrediting agency:

Dallas Theological Seminary
http://www.dts.edu

Bob Jones University
http://www.bju.edu/

Grace Theological Seminary
http://www.grace.edu/seminary/

Talbot School of Theology
http://www.talbot.edu/about/

Moody Bible Institute
http://www.moody.edu/

Westminster Theological Seminary
http://www.wts.edu/


I might be wrong. Pls correct me.

Each of these is a well-recognized seminary, and if even a single one of them lacks government accreditation, it goes a long way to demonstrate my theis that government-accreditation is not always essential to establish a great seminary.

 

You didn't mention the word "government" when you said "some of the greatest theological seminaries there are unaccredited."

Now you want to change your statement. Anyway, you are very incorrect. Only Bob Jones, which is in the process of acquiring TRACS accreditation, is not currently accredited by an agency recognized by the USDoE.

At first I was critical. Then, due to your replies and responses and willingness, I began to give you the benefit of the doubt. Now, I don't think you have been totally honest.

You said emphatically "some of the greatest theological seminaries there are unaccredited." Then, when asked to name at least five, you stated you may be wrong.

As I said earlier, I am no expert on religious DL or secular DL. I have learned much via these fora.

 

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I am a little sly at times in the manner I phrase questions. Please look again at my question above. I don't think you've answered it.

As you have been informed, (just too many smart people here) , the US "Government" does not accredited schools. See how quickly we learn here at DI--if we listen?

Further, as you've also now learned, of the list you provided, only BJU is not accredited, but BJU has applied to be accredited. Isn't DI wonderful in all the info it provides?


But it is sad that you cannot say, "See, see look at Dallas! Look at Westminster!! Look at Grace!!! They all are UA just like us!!!!"

But let's for sake of argument say that BJU is your choice to use to answer my question. OK,

1) Then what is your evidence that the BJU's doc in Bible/Theology is thought by the Evangelical academe to be 'one of the greatest' PhD programs in Bible/Syst Theol.?" (my question above).

and,

2) Were one attempting to provide Calvin with credibility, by using BJU's reputation as an unaccredited school, then musn't Calvin be like BJU in more ways, (eg in substance and significance and scholarship) than just simple being also unaccredited???

You see, that's an ignoble, incredibly illogical ploy some USA based substandard religious schools employ : "We're UA and BJU is UA so we are just as good as BJU."

 

Dear Jimmy and Bill,

I am sorry about the confusion. Right from the beginning, specially because one of the postings checked a government listing, I assumed you were taling about government-accreditation or accreditation by a government agency. This is why I pointed out the names of few bible seminaries.

As far as TRACS is concerned, I know it much more than all of you because I am part of the international creationist community which has given birth to TRACS. It is a purely religious accrediting agency and unless one is a conservative Christian school one cannot get a TRACS accreditation.

If you are talking about accreditation by government-approved private [non-government] accredting agencies then Calvin already has got it.

Calvin has Tentative Accreditation by ICAATS and it will have to go through a rigorous evaluation process and wait-period to get a full accreditation.

In fact I closely work with two of the best private accrediting agencies in Asia, and serve as a refree for both. Calvin is in the process of getting accredited by the other one also. Both accreditations are long and tortorous and we are doing everything we can to fulfill all requirements.

I would have made it clear earlier if I had not misunderstood your question. I simply interpreted your questions to mean accredited by a government agency.

No government agency accredits theolgoical degrees in India [or in most Asian countries] as this is against the constitution of these countries.

 

Didn't you state earlier that ICAATS is a recognized government accrediting agency?

Am I the only one who cannot follow your circumlocutions?

 

Well, I think I am finsihed with this thread. A lack of consistency and constancy with every other post takes too much time to respond to. I am not sure Dr. Philip knows as much about his school and the accrediting process in India as he would have us believe. He makes statements, changes them, qualifies them, deviates from them, and, in an attempt to redeem himself, uses as a last resort the lines about misunderstanding the inquirer.

 

I am definitely curious to see the place where i said that ICAATA is a recognized government accrediting agency.

I feel I alwasy said it is a government-recoganized accrediting agency.

 

I am sorry that not all of you are satisfied by my answers, thus Jimmy's desire to quit.

However, the two threads in which I posted and in which numeorus questions were posted have resulted in much useful inputs to Calvin/Trinity.

We are redisigning our website with a lot of additional information, with two items given in detail:

1. Syllabus for each degree
2. Credentials of teachers along with the schools from where they obtained their degrees.

As I said from the beginning, we have nothing to hide, so we will make everything public, lest many keep gussing. [The ITS website, from which one of you has presumed me to have taken my ThD, does not belong to the seminary with whom I studied].

We will leave no stone untured, and shall make information available exhausitively.

 

As seen on TV, or all Rhodes lead to...Kochi???

I assure you, Dr Philip, you have not yet encountered "gussing" on this forum. Might not be a bad idea, though.

Your posts are like the Western Ghats where weather systems collide: logomachy and shilling have met together, doubletalk and presumption have kissed each other.

Nobody at TRACS has ever heard of you or your school.

You have engaged in a campaign of innocence-by-association.

Dr Clifton rightly observed that it's not working very well.

We once had a Danish poster promoting a questionable school who assumed exactly the same sort of rhetorical stance in his advertising campaign.

You may think we're ignorant about India (wrongo, chum), but we've seen this sort of thing before. It has a dismaying universality.

 

Calvin School of Apologetics

I am a simple man. I read and study the Bible everyday because I love God's word and value his guidance and wisdom. My academic credentials more than suffice for this world, but guarantee me nothing beyond it.

Academic bragging and arrogant prose is easy if all you do is academics and prosing. God's work requires more. There are those needing you. Accredited or not. Who accredits God's work but God? I am sure the Disciples all worried about their Doctorates and credentials prior to pursuing their callings

Calvin School of Apologetics offers some really good courses...for free. I have taken several of them, compared them (through research) to scripture, and have learned a great deal in the process (especially with regard to apologetics and archaeology).

Accredited or not, I find Calvin School to be an invaluable learning resource. It is helping me in my Walk with God.

 

Re: Calvin School of Apologetics

 

No judgement intended. I am, at best, not qualified to judge anyone. I, like you, do have a point of view though. My main point being that Calvin School, does in fact, offer some really outstanding coursework in Theology.

When I go to their website, it indicates only that it is accredited by an international accrediting agency. It makes no claim of being accredited by the North American DOE or any of it's recognized agencies. I see no falseness in advertising.

A degree earned at Calvin School of Apologetics is subject to the scrutiny of whomever it is presented to. Some may accept the degree, others may not. That does not change the fact that one really has to work and learn in order to obtain a degree from them. Is the coursework comparable to that offered by a DOE accredited college? I believe it is.

Standards are standards. Measures are measures. I don't believe God's word and Ministry belong to Ceaser (this world). I cannot recall reading in scripture where His Works and the teaching of His Word required approval from a worldly accrediting agency at all. Rather, the tree is judged by it's fruit.

I realize the importance of standards in education. My daughter attends an accredited university for a secular skill that may provide her some worldly success. I did the same. Oranges and apples, etc.

 

Fair enough. But if that's so, then why pursue questionable academic credentials in the first place? Isn't falsely purporting to be a "Ph.D." one of the most egregious forms of bragging and posing?

So why not simply treat it as a good source of non-credit classes that you believe are valuable? If that's all that Calvin/Trinity was doing, then I don't think that it would receive anything but praise. It's the misleading academic degrees that it offers that taints it.

 

C-a-e-s-a-r.
Or at least that's how it is in my Bible.

Janko says:
Whenever Christian denies he's judging, he's judging like shite out a hen's heinie.
Whenever Christian says accreditation big whoop, he's pushing fake accreditation.
Whenever Christian brags about "simple," Christian gets sneaky.
Whenever Christian says humble, not.

 

I do not have a degree in Theology. So in truth, cannot compare a Theological degree (non-accredited vs. accredited). I do know the Bible fairly well and am well educated (by accredited colleges). I have helped to minister (and have been ministered to) in foreign countries, during peace and in combat situations, to street people, and others from all walks of life. I am a Christian, not a Pastor or Minister.

Do I really judge? Not knowingly. I will think about it and look at this discussion from your point of view.

I have nothing against whatever accredidation you feel makes your education better than that of Calvin School. If we were discussing any kind of education other than God's Word, we would be in complete agreement.

Standards in education are very necessary. For God's Shepherds, the standards could not be higher. The Dean is Almighty. His tests are hard, but revealing.

We don't quite see things the same way on this issue. That is not really important though. We're both Christians and likely agree much more than we disagree.

It has been good talking with you. Best wishes in everything. God Bless and Keep.